What steps do we 50 somethings need to take to avoid the situation many of us find ourselves with our elderly relatives?

[Mxflamingnoravera]

Many of on here vow that we will never put our children through what we are going through with our oldies. I'm one of them, but, unsure what I need to do (apart from set up LPA and a will). What are your suggestions for steps we can take?

It might be good to set up a checklist for different stages of our adult lives, depending on how old our children are. My son is 27 and has agreed to do LPA.

Mere so knowing the 'rules' and knowing that if you have money or assets and choose not to spend it, but save quite significant amounts instead and have it sit there doing nothing knowing it would be used to pay for care, that's the choice and the risk you take.
It's a gamble as to whether you'll need residential care of course, but you know the rules you takes your choice.
And 'care' is expensive. £136 a day for 24/7 care on tap including all insurances, bills and food etc. £5.60 an hour. My nursery fees cost cost more per hour 18 years ago, and that didn't include paying people unsocial hours.

£136 and the rest. That wouldn’t get you over the step of a care home here.

That was using pp statement of £50k a year. Some will be more, some less. But once your finances drop below the threshold the state step in.
The actual figures are less relevant than the argument you should pay, rather than stockpile money otherwise doing nothing simply to pass it on.

@Egeegogxmv

FIL had always run new cars, but won't pay for a taxi from hospital after eye surgery 3 miles away, family member has to take time off full-time job to get him Why is the family member letting him get away with this ruse?

I mean... if you've had eye surgery it's probably preferable to have a lift from someone you know and trust and who has an interest in making sure you're OK? Hardly unreasonable.

My mother finished chemo and radiotherapy at 81. Still very much around and with-it at 83.

@esterwin

I want harsh interventions at 70. My father who is older than 70 has had a successful heart operation. A neighbour has leukemia and has chemotherapy every few years to keep it at bay. My FIL had a stroke in his seventies and almost completely recovered. Some harsh interventions are fairly common. And these people walk about amongst you living their life.

That's fine, you have that choice. But your choice doesn't mean someone else's choice is wrong or that you get to say what everyone else must do.

Some great ideas on this thread. One that came to mind for me is discussing ill health and death across generations, normalize discussing changes with paid help and funeral plans with the idea that these things are part of life admin.

There are a few posts on older relatives refusing to discuss things, but sometimes it's the younger ones who don't want their older relatives talk about it. I've had that a few times with family members who had a terminal diagnosis and suddenly wanting to talk about it beyond 'put me in the wheelie bin' but other family members wouldn't hear it or kept delaying it because 'it can wait 'til after the holidays' (sadly, death didn't wait) or 'we need to arrange when the kids aren't around' (in this case it was nearly secondary age children and a very obvious illness) or other stalling tactics.

It's understandable, but so so hard when the older person wants to talk about with a group so they can feel everyone is all on the same page, but doesn't have the personality or energy to press against other family members who are uncomfortable talking about it 'yet'.

@Blossomtoes

I know all of that *@VanGoghsDog*. So sorry you think it rude to say what I think. Giving up on life when you could easily have another 20 (dementia free) years with the right health care seems bonkers to me. If she’d said palliative care only following a diagnosis of dementia I’d completely get it - but after 70? My dad had another 26 years of foreign holidays after his 70th birthday!

They didn't say "after 70", they said after 70 with a diagnosis, so your "following a diagnoses of dementia" is exactly the sort of thing they meant. So you obviously do both think the same.

You're clearly not sorry that I found your comment rude. It is very rude to diss other people's choices that have zero impact on you by saying life is wasted on some people.

She should have refused treatment for every minor infection she's had for the last 14 years?

Where has anyone said that everyone should do this after she 70? This is something that poster said she would do for herself, she doesn't say anyone else should do it.

Also, she was very clear that she meant major ill health, not minor infection.

We don’t think the same at all. How is “over 70” the same as “following a diagnosis of dementia”? Frankly, you’re right, I don’t give a rat’s arse if you think I’m rude.

Bruceandnosh agree! My ma had left notes on hymns and music and readings - helpful.
She’s also left a note of who to invite to her funeral. It dawned on me when going through her address book trying to cobble together a list and I kept thinking ‘what’s that ‘F’ next to all the names I know to choose? Loved her for that. Thanks mum.

@Blossomtoes

We don’t think the same at all. How is “over 70” the same as “following a diagnosis of dementia”? Frankly, you’re right, I don’t give a rat’s arse if you think I’m rude.

Because the post you are arguing with didn't say "over 70", you really do need to reread it.

She even mentioned dementia. And "It is up to us to ask for DNR if we get a heart attack in our 70s or to ask just for palliative care for cancer". Not just "over 70" but over seventy with a diagnosis.

So, unless you think dementia only starts after, say, 90 (and you'd be wrong on that) then you are basically saying the same thing. For some reason you've specified dementia, but other terminal illnesses are available.

Personally, even at 53, I've already decided I would only have palliative care for a cancer diagnosis, and I have had to face these thoughts recently as I was investigated for bowel cancer. That does not mean life is wasted on me.

Move to housing which is suitable for limited mobility and having in home carers before you get to the physical and mental ability threshold where you can't manage it yourself. A larger 3-4 bed house on 2 floors gets too much to clean etc too, whereas a 2 bed bungalow/flat can be far more manageable. Recognise that in older age the situation can change quickly, many of us have had to scramble for care home places following an extended hospital admission during which there's unexpected complications

Let all your wishes be known but also let your family know you trust them to do what's in your best interests.

If you don't have children, you need to appoint someone (a relative or solicitor normally) to look after your affairs if you can't yourself or when you die. Needs to be a lot more details than those with children

I hope you don't mind me commenting. I'm early 40s and my hubs is mid 50s. He has a brother and sister. He's the first and the one who does the most for his mum. He's caring and dependable generally. We got married 2yrs and are very happy.

We've been living in his 1 bed flat and I moved out of my 2 bed after marriage.

We're looking to move to a house. We don't have kids yet but plan to. So ideally 4 bed house.

The crux is that my 87 Yr old MIL lives alone in the very large family house with quite a big garden. She has a gardener but my husband has to go down from London every other week to help with the garden and veg garden etc. She says she will never live in home. She talks down on homes and negatively about anyone there. She says she'll like to live with us. My MIL wasn't happy when my husband informed her of me and then of us getting married cos of my race. Two years later we get on very well but I worry if her living with us will change the dynamic of my husband and I's relationship. We love eachother very much and get on very well.

Initially she said she'll like to live near us and is happy to move whenever we choose. We plan to buy within 20mins of the M25. She's in the West Midlands. Then it became a granny annexe. To be honest I don't mind. My mum passed away when I was quite young. I don't have close family in the country and I enjoyed having my grandmother come on long visits when I was younger. Ofcourse this is my MIL not my grandma.

I just wonder if I'm being terribly naive and somehow things can change drastically if she had a granny annexe on our property. As I said, my husband is very kind and believes looking after family is the right thing to do. I'm of the same vein. However, I worry that my husband will end up being totally devoted to him mum if she lived with us. The way he puts it, "she's heavily emotionally invested" in him. He talks to him everyday, thinks the world of him (apart from marrying me) so much so on Christmas day last year his brother said if their mum could marry my husband she would. She smiled and briefly stated how even though he's so mentally talented ie very intelligent he 's an all rounders as talented in many other aspects of life too. Everyone knows she's his priced possession. I find it admirable and I'm glad my husband is who he is but at the back of my mind I wonder if it's a bad idea to have her live with us.

The truth is I don't think I could have her be in a home. In my culture it's not the done thing. In my country of origin homes for the elderly are a rarity. Grandparents etc move in with their children and help employed for their care. However, labour is very cheap. So you'll have a number of people on staff for domestics. However, things are much more costlier here and I worry that I don't fully understand how things work in the UK in that regard. I've lived here 14yrs.

How does one properly take care one's elderly parent in England if you don't wish for them to be in a home?

How does one properly take care one's elderly parent in England if you don't wish for them to be in a home?

With increasing difficulty. I lived 12 miles from mine. It was the perfect distance - until it wasn’t. I did all their washing, shopping, financial admin, managed the contract with the carers, got out of bed at 4am to get my mum up off the floor - you get the picture. The only thing I didn’t do was personal care. My life would have been a lot easier if we’d had a granny annexe but that’s me, not you. Eventually, even with a team of about 12 people supporting them, mine weren’t safe at home and they went into a care home. Six months later they were dead.

Hi Delectable. You might get a better response if you start a new thread of your own but several thoughts occur to me.

I think a granny annexe is not at all a bad idea but it's a big move at this age. Does your MiL have a community and friends where she is? Would she depend on you both much more if she's isolated in the new place?

I had a grandparent in the other half of a semidetached for my childhood and it was great for me, but my mum does say it was difficult as my dad often chose to go and sit with his mum just as she needed him at kids' bathtime etc. Also the arrangement started when my granny was 65 and came to an end when my granny was 86. Very elderly people tend to have less energy with babies etc but can still enjoy a relationship with them.

In general I would think what to do if this doesn't work. It sounds like the money from the house sale will fund you all but id want it all very clear what funds need to be released to your husband's siblings after your MIL's death.

I think it's difficult to face even for those who think they are doing their best to not be a burden.

My MIL lives in a cold 2nd floor flat with no lift. She doesn't drive and insists she'll be walking to the shops and carrying shopping up the stairs forever 🙄 She would never think she's being selfish... she says she'll move when she needs to and doesn't get the point that she needs to do it BEFORE she needs to.

@Egeegogxmv

70? You really think 70? Is there not a good argument for saying that 80 is the new 3 score and 10

I don't assume I'll suddenly get stricken with some ailment at 70. But if I am, that's me trying to shuffle off the mortal coil. I'll happily stay fit and healthy until I'm 100 if that happens. But what I can't bear is what I have seen in both my parents and DH's mum. Interventions against dying in 70s leading to a listless vague depressed limited life which is obsessed with pills and hospital appointments.

I adore life. But to me quality is everything. I am baffled that life itself, under any circumstance is worth fighting for. As long as I can climb mountains and write books and row down the misty river, travel and love my DC and DP I am alive. But fussing about my third hospital appointment in two days while my house gets overrun with mice. Nah. I don't want my children worrying about that.

Delectable
In her mind she is the most important person in her son's life, if you let her under your roof she will do all she can to scapegoat you and destroy the bond between you and your partner

@MaMelon

Have an up to date will in place with a solicitor as executor.

I've seen different opinions on this one and so would be interested to know why you have decided to appoint a solicitor as executor ?

If you have a family member you can try to act as executor, in my experience, it is much better to leave the choice of which legal firm to use to the executor.

How does one properly take care one's elderly parent in England if you don't wish for them to be in a home?

@Delectable We arranged live in care for my DM as she became increasingly frail and anxious. We took the decision to go for a home when we established that she needed people available 24/7 and needed two people to provide personal care, which would have required a team of four people living with her.

The home had people on tap 24/7 and were really lovely at allowing her to dictate what help and support she required.

In fact, bu that time she wasn't really very aware of her surroundings so that we felt the home really was the best place for her comfort and security.

I've seen different opinions on this one and so would be interested to know why you have decided to appoint a solicitor as executor ?

Just family reasons - without going into too much detail SIL has behaved appallingly (and possibly illegally) so all contact between her and DH after MIL dies will be via a solicitor. I hope to goodness the same thing won’t happen to any of my children but just in case my solicitor is my executor.

Cowbells you are spot on with this:
"But to me quality is everything. I am baffled that life itself, under any circumstance is worth fighting for"

A solicitor will often charge around 2% of the value of the estate, even when it's very straightforward. I wouldn't use one unless there's no choice, this is why you have multiple executors.