My dad has sexually harassed his cleaner

[TubbyMcFatfuck]

Hi, have been lurking here for a while but this is my first post on this board. I have an issue with my 75 yr old dad and could use some perspective and advice. Sorry if this is long

My mum died 6yrs ago and shortly after my dad had a stroke. He suffered physical and mental impairment. He recovered reasonably well but hasn’t regained all of his physical or mental function. As a result of his ill health he can no longer work having previously been a workaholic. He lost his wife, his health, his work and raison d’etre within the space of a few months. His personality has changed to a large extent and sometimes it’s very hard to recognise the person he is now as my previously kind, loving and doting dad.

His health has not been great over the past 6 years. He is prone to self neglect, is depressed has poor mobility and struggles to cope with day to day tasks. Lockdown has not helped and after a 6 week hospital stay last year, he now has carers going in twice a day as well as district nurses and a physio. We also got him a cleaner as the house was getting in a state.

Today the owner of the cleaning company contacted me and told me that my dad has been what amounts to sexually harassing his cleaner for weeks. Making comments about her taking off her top, telling her he’ll get in the shower with her and wash her as well as cuddling, nuzzling into her neck and kissing her neck.

I am absolutely devastated about this. I am in total shock that my once lovely and respectful dad would do this to a young woman coming into his house to do her job . I am disgusted at the thought of him treating her like this. If this had happened to a friend or relative if mine I’d be telling them to consider going to the police.

I have contacted the care team to find out if he’s behaved like this with any of his carers before but couldn’t get through so have left a message for them.

Obviously I need to speak to him but how do I go about dealing with this? I am absolutely fuming at him and was ready to head over there today to read him the riot act but for various reasons wasn’t able to go. I am going tomorrow with my husband though.

I spoke to my sister about this earlier today to let her know. She lives abroad and is therefore not as involved. She was initially angry about it but has since text me to say that she’s had a long think and while she agrees what he’s done is terrible, she’s not angry and sees him as someone who is lonely, vulnerable and confused and that this is common in elderly people like our dad.

I’m really struggling with this. Can anyone offer any advice as to how to address this?

www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/vascular-dementia/symptoms-causes/syc-20378793

@Mydogmylife

I'm pretty disappointed that you are agreeing with one of the few posters who are implying that your father is a suddenly a sex pest, despite many others confirming that this is a common side effect of dementia and condemning his behaviour - unless you are about to drip feed that this has been his normal behaviour.

I feel terrible about the whole thing. My dad was the loveliest man. A doting, loving hardworking family man. He is completely different now and it's so hard to square the old dad with the person he is now. He has changed so much in the past 6 yrs. it's hard to know how much of it is down to the stroke or the depression or losing his purpose in life. Probably a combination of everything. There is no drip feed, to the very best of my knowledge he's never been like this before. . I'm desperate to believe that there's a medical reason for this and that this isn't really who he is. At the same time however, it doesn't sit right with me to excuse terrible behaviour from men towards women. A woman has been assaulted here and Im angry about that. A pp said that he seems to be saving his inappropriateness for this one particular woman. I am wondering if it was medical and he genuinely doesn't realise or can't control it would the behaviour not be indiscriminate?

It may well be happening with others but as it seems to be not uncommon maybe they just haven't mentioned it, I don't know.

It's incredibly hard. I'm genuinely torn.

I don't think she should go back for both their sakes.

I really feel for you this must be awful for you Can you request a review with neurology? My dad had a stroke some years ago and whilst he hasn't behaved like your dad has fortunately it has affected him mentally in many ways eg really poor executive function and self awareness, cognitively slow etc. In the short term a male cleaner is a good solution but it might be that the neurologist could suggest some more rehab/support which might help. It might also be his response to feeling very put of control, lacking independence, grieving etc obviously very inappropriate and upsetting but a medic might be able to help you figure out what's going on a bit.

I'm really sad to hear that you're considering sacking the cleaner and replacing her with a man because she's lodged a sexual harrassment complaint!

He could be doing this because he's mentally incapacitated in some way, in which case the cleaner has said she's happy to continue working. He could be doing it because he's an old perv, in which case he should be called out on it and told to stop. You can only work out which one it is by talking to him - surely that's the first course of action before the poor woman loses her work!

This happened with my FIL. It was vascular dementia in his case. He was inappropriate with several females. When he went into a home, it culminated with him getting into bed naked with a female resident. We had to have him moved to a male unit and although there were females serving the meals, all the personal care was done by a male.

It will be interesting to know whether he has said or done anything inappropriate with a carer. Either way you are right, he should have males dealing with him from now on.

Most of you seem to think it's definitely a sign of dementia so I'll go down the route of trying to get him properly assessed. I have mentioned cognitive impairment to the different agencies involved in his care but everyone seems to pin his downward spiral on the stroke and his depression.

Thank you for all the kind words and advice and for anyone else dealing with something like this. It's shit

I don't think you know enough information yet. But what is clear from your post is that your Dad did not used to do things like this and it's therefore highly unlikely he's suddenly turned into a sex pest for no reason. It's much more likely this has a medical cause. Trust that you knew your father and that this is not characteristic of him until you know otherwise. Dementia can progress rapidly or it could be lack of inhibitions from the stroke. He's a vulnerable old man. Assume that until you know otherwise as it's the logically most likely scenario and if that's the case your dad needs you to support and advocate for him.

@Providora

I'm really sad to hear that you're considering sacking the cleaner and replacing her with a man because she's lodged a sexual harrassment complaint!

He could be doing this because he's mentally incapacitated in some way, in which case the cleaner has said she's happy to continue working. He could be doing it because he's an old perv, in which case he should be called out on it and told to stop. You can only work out which one it is by talking to him - surely that's the first course of action before the poor woman loses her work!

This is unrealistic IF he has dementia of any sort. It's not about the cleaner losing her job, it's about her being safe. People with dementia can sometimes become very physical; not violent as such, but definitely pushing boundaries. If the woman ended up having to fight him off in any way, it won't go well for anyone.

OP you have the best idea - get male carers and a male cleaner.

If he's disinhibited, then it is possible for him to pick one person. Frontal lobe damage can be quite subtle.

@TubbyMcFatfuck

Most of you seem to think it's definitely a sign of dementia so I'll go down the route of trying to get him properly assessed. I have mentioned cognitive impairment to the different agencies involved in his care but everyone seems to pin his downward spiral on the stroke and his depression.

Thank you for all the kind words and advice and for anyone else dealing with something like this. It's shit

It is shit. Really really sad. It must be awful to see someone you know and love change and deteriorate like this Getting old is fucking rubbish. 💐💐💐💐

@Providora

I'm really sad to hear that you're considering sacking the cleaner and replacing her with a man because she's lodged a sexual harrassment complaint!

He could be doing this because he's mentally incapacitated in some way, in which case the cleaner has said she's happy to continue working. He could be doing it because he's an old perv, in which case he should be called out on it and told to stop. You can only work out which one it is by talking to him - surely that's the first course of action before the poor woman loses her work!

Oh god. I hadn't though of it like that. When you put it like that it does seem grossly unfair. What if it escalated though? I'd never forgive myself.

The cleaner might feel like she doesn't want to make trouble.

Hopefully there's enough work for her to choose a better role?

OP if your father is deemed to have mental capacity then I'm sorry, he is just guilty.

If the cleaner comes through a cleaning company, presumably she isn't actually losing her job? The company may well be able to swop her duties over with a male cleaner.

OP, the change in personality resulting from a stroke sounds so like my mother. She didn't become sexually inappropriate, but she became an angry and frankly nasty woman. She does now unfortunately very clearly have vascular dementia, but matters improved quite a lot when her doctor prescribed tranquillisers. I think talking to your Dad's GP needs to be a priority.

Try not to feel too bad. My Dad was a skilled professional with a long successful career. When he became sick with cancer, then suffered a decline in his mental ability, he became a bit aggressive when an x-ray tech was positioning him. This led to a big "v". Being posted above his bed. We were mortified.

My Mum was beautiful, tall, blond, the works in her day. She must have received lots of attention.

When she got dementia she was sure every man in her long term care home was madly lusting over her. Also embarrassing.

Thankfully she died before it got much worse or I am sure she would have been stripping off. I miss her so much.

So, what they were changes. It is hard to watch, but nothing to be ashamed of.

All the best.

Oh god. I hadn't though of it like that. When you put it like that it does seem grossly unfair. What if it escalated though? I'd never forgive myself.

Sorry, I didn't want to make you feel even more shit about it! I came to this thread straight after one about a 17yo apprentice being harassed at work, and the contrast in the advice given is stark.

The world still sucks for women in so many ways... why do so many old men revert to misogyny when dementia kicks in, was it there all along, hidden under a thin veil of manners? Not your problem to solve of course, your priority is your Dad and I hope you can get to the bottom of this and get the help he needs

As an ex cleaner I can tell you this is very common. Men think that job makes you subservient and submissive and you'd be horrified at how many men try it on. It's quite common for them to "pop home" for something to perv on you while their wife isn't there.

The cleaner is probably upset and embarrassed it's gone so far and I suspect you've been told a sanitized version out of sheer embarrassment. If he's kissing her neck I'd be very surprised that's all he's done.

As someone who used to be a nurse aide, it happened to me as well . But it is just one guy and he was in his right mind . He can’t walk because his dwarfism turned for the worst so all he did was made comments and tried to grab me when I am trying to help him. Worst, he used to be a detective. I couldn’t believe it

Most of you seem to think it's definitely a sign of dementia so I'll go down the route of trying to get him properly assessed. That sounds like a good plan. If he's not given you POA yet it might be worth trying to get it before he's assessed, it will make things much easier if he does have dementia.

@Providora

I'm really sad to hear that you're considering sacking the cleaner and replacing her with a man because she's lodged a sexual harrassment complaint!

He could be doing this because he's mentally incapacitated in some way, in which case the cleaner has said she's happy to continue working. He could be doing it because he's an old perv, in which case he should be called out on it and told to stop. You can only work out which one it is by talking to him - surely that's the first course of action before the poor woman loses her work!

The cleaner may be happy to go back, but it's presumably on the understanding that she doesn't have to endure being sexually harassed again. If he's mentally incapacitated, op can't guarantee that and she should not be asking anyone to put up with this behaviour on the basis she'll pay her. Op can't physically protect her except to not have her there. It's shit but expecting her to accept the harassment is worse. If he's an old perv, he knows it's wrong so saying Dad stop will just stop him for a short while or make him try it on someone else. In that case the cleaner, his victim, should not be sent back to him.

It's on the agency to find her alt work, not op to pay her to be harassed

@Providora

Oh god. I hadn't though of it like that. When you put it like that it does seem grossly unfair. What if it escalated though? I'd never forgive myself.

Sorry, I didn't want to make you feel even more shit about it! I came to this thread straight after one about a 17yo apprentice being harassed at work, and the contrast in the advice given is stark.

The world still sucks for women in so many ways... why do so many old men revert to misogyny when dementia kicks in, was it there all along, hidden under a thin veil of manners? Not your problem to solve of course, your priority is your Dad and I hope you can get to the bottom of this and get the help he needs

@Providora Ha! No, not at all - you didn't make me feel any worse. That's the good thing about posting on a forum like this, you get different points of view and ways to look at things you hadn't considered before. Thank you for your input.

I'm just off the phone to the manager of his care team. He has 2 main regular carers. She managed to speak to one of them who reported that there had been "banter" which she shrugs off and deflects as she has been trained to do in such situations. Also asking for cudddles which is met with a firm no. So it's not just his cleaner.

The manager was excellent and raised many points raised by pp. That this is common and could be a symptom of something medical. She is going to speak to his cpn and gp and see about getting him assessed properly for dementia. She offered to have a word with my dad too but I said I'd do that. I'm not looking forward to it.

I'm still absolutely devastated by this though and I'm not at all comfortable with framing sexual harassment as "banter" Nobody should have to deal with this in the course of doing their job. Sorry to all the pp who've been on the receiving end of this

I am a survivor of sexual assault, and I LOATHE victim-blaming, so I am extremely uncomfortable with the report from the cleaning company that the cleaner is happy to continue working for your father. If she is genuinely happy to continue working there without a guarantee that changes will be made to his behaviour, I would be suspicious that there was something very wrong with the cleaner’s boundaries. As it stands, I would have concerns that she is in a vulnerable position (financially/Covid, etc) and is being coerced by the company not to make any waves.

As for your Dad, I am sorry... my first message was badly worded. I would also be questioning if he had not in fact begun to abuse alcohol (in secret) after the death of your mother. I would consider checking his bins, dropping by for a surprise visit either after dinner or early morning and see what you discover.

I'm uncomfortable with the cleaner going back too. When the owner spoke to me I just took it as a given that his contract was terminated but when she said she was happy to go back if I spoke to him I was a bit shocked and said I didn't think that was a good idea. Obviously I cannot control what he does and cannot provide absolute guarantees. At the moment I could go there at the same time every week when she's there, but that isn't tenable long term as I'll be returning to full time work in the next couple of months.

I would be extremely surprised if alcohol was a factor in this. He did used to have a few beers when he was in better health but this has become very infrequent in the past few years and he hasn't had a drink in over a year now. He is housebound and cannot use the internet so relies solely on me for his shopping and I have never bought him alcohol. I don't know how he'd get his hands on any. I also do regularly pop in unannounced and do check his bins- (mostly to monitor what he's eating as he wasn't eating properly and letting food go old) I have never seen any empties in there.
Of course people will always find away if that's what they really want, but I'm as sure as I can be that he's not drinking.

I'm so sorry that you have experienced sexual abuse

This is common where there has been damage to the brain. I understand that it is distressing to see your DF's personality apparently change, but anyone who works with older adults will recognise what is going on and handle it calmly and patiently.

Many cleaning companies send cleaners in pairs, and this might work best here.