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Elderly parents

See all MNHQ comments on this thread

Need some help. Visiting my elderly father is excrutiating.

475 replies

needsomehelpwiththisone · 14/10/2018 17:17

I've done a new account for this post but I've been here for a long time.

I am desperate for some advice about visiting my elderly father, because I feel like the world's biggest bitch and I don't know what to do.

Background: We have nothing in common. We did not get on well when I was growing up. I am an only child (relevant). My mother is dead (also relevant).

A few years ago, dad, by then in his mid 80s (now late 80s) moved into sheltered accommodation about a half hour drive from me having previously lived seven hours away at the other end of the country. There was really no other option as due to my own poor health I could not make the visit to see him any more and he was all alone and beginnig to struggle on his own. Until the point where he moved, we saw each other once a year, perhaps twice at the very most - I would go "home" to visit for a couple of days at a time and we'd both be climbing the walls after a day. Visits were only ever two days at the most. My father is very insular. Conversations consisted of "Do you watch this television programme?" and nothing more. He was never interested in anything I had to say, so I didn't bother to tell him what was going on in my life. It was painful.

Now he lives near me and is older and still on his own, I am expected to visit once a week. In principle I agree with this, he's on his own after all and I'm his only living relative. But I find the visits absolutely excrutiating and I'm beginning to put off going. We are not close, and we have nothing to talk about. He doesn't listen to anything I have to say, so there's no point telling him anything. I arrive, I take him to the shop, but this only takes half an hour at the most, and then I don't know what to do. We sit there in silence. He doesn't do anything except watch television, so I can't ask him about his day. He's also very deaf, so conversation is almost impossible, even if he was interested in anything I had to say.

He also insists on phoning me twice a day just to "hear my voice" (he can make out my voice on the phone, apparently, but nobody else's). I understand why, he's very lonely, but I don't know what to say to him then either and vice versa. I have no clue how to relate to him at all and never have done. Our relationship growing up was fractious and argumentative and unpleasant - he's mellowed with age - but there are no nice memories to sit and talk about. I sometimes take him out for lunch, but again, conversation is so difficult that we sit and eat lunch in the pub in silence and then I take him home again.

Please, what can I do to make these visits more bearable for both of us? Not going is not an option, since he will call me and beg me to go if I don't. I dread going. I put it off for as long as humanly possible. And I feel terrible.

OP posts:
Urbanbeetler · 16/10/2018 10:48

This thread is a real reminder to me in my mid fifties to cultivate positivity and kindness, so when my turn comes to be dependent on family for my care, I can embark on this stage of life as my mum has now she’s embracing her new role as looked-after rather than the ‘looker-afterer ‘

We can’t avoid this phase of life but we can think about it, build love and positivity and make strategies not to end up dragging our poor loved ones into an impossible more as your dad is doing to you.

Urbanbeetler · 16/10/2018 10:50

Mire not more. Sorry for typos.

N0tfinished · 16/10/2018 10:50

A pp said it downthread I think. The crux of it is the POA & getting his memory issues/care needs addressed. If you're happy that's in hand, then there's some hope that you'll be able to resolve some issues.

I honestly think you need to change your question. It's not 'How can I make him stop?' it's 'How can I make this more bearable for me?'

I really feel for you. Caring can be a miserable thankless task. Most of us are not selfless angels with bottomless patience & love. I'm definitely not, but I've learned that I cope better if I put my needs in the equation somewhere also.

IrmaFayLear · 16/10/2018 10:51

Pay the £200 yourself. Honestly it's chicken feed compared with the stress and further expenditure that would ensue if you don't get one.

You can get a LPA and a Health and Welfare one, too, so you could sell it to your df as needing both so you can look after his health interests (as well as money).

Most homes take council-funded as well as self-funded residents. (Unless they are quite fancy ones.) A bit of googling will identify homes local to you and then you can speak to the manager about availability etc.

Urbanbeetler · 16/10/2018 10:53

And you are SO RIGHT to refuse to drag his laundry off to do for him. It needs to be part of his care package, even if that means getting that poa and using it to enforce this happening. The grubby bed linen stage won’t kill him in the meantime.

loveka · 16/10/2018 10:58

Ask him to tell you about his past. When he met your mum, what his parents were like etc.

Read to him.

You are a better woman than I. I hated my dad (emotional abuse of my mum, so indirectly of me) I went to see him maybe 5 times when he was old and in a home.

needsomehelpwiththisone · 16/10/2018 11:00

If I spun him a line about me being unavailable/moving/going away it would be unbearable. Honestly, he sat in A&E and cried and cried about going into hospital because he wouldn't be able to contact me while he was in there, this is the level I'm dealing with here. He's obsessed with being able to contact me.

I'm fairly sure I wouldn't be able to get him to agree to going into a home and I don't think a white lie would be the way to do it. When Mum went into a home social services brought the manager of the care home up to their flat and told her a white lie that they were taking her out for a cup of tea to get her to go with them, when really they were taking her to the home. It was awful. I went to see her the same day to take her some clothes and I'll never forget the look of fury and betrayal on her face. That is my experience of "putting a relative in a home" and the thought of having to do it again is awful.

OP posts:
tobee · 16/10/2018 11:00

If he says "have you seen this programme?" Instead of just saying "no" what would happen if you asked him about it? What about taking note of the programmes he watches and watch them and then you have a point of discussion. You say he's not interested in things but surely that's a two way street? He didn't/doesn't want to play board games etc but you don't want to watch the tv programmes he does. Which is fine. But if it's so awkward why not suck it up?

If he goes into a care home I don't think that that solves your initial question. Presumably you'll still have to go and see him? You'll just be feeling less guilty that he's not be properly looked after.

needsomehelpwiththisone · 16/10/2018 11:05

Please try reading the whole thread before you comment like that, toobee. "Suck it up and do what he wants" is hardly helpful in this situation.

OP posts:
needsomehelpwiththisone · 16/10/2018 11:07

And it's lovely to know that you think i'm not having him "properly looked after" when it's him who's refusing all the care that I've organised, but thanks for that scathing judgement. Try reading the damn thread next time before you barge in like that.

OP posts:
Urbanbeetler · 16/10/2018 11:07

The only white lie I will tell is to suggest that the moving to a care home is respite, and only then when my mum’s memory is so poor that it will ease the transition without making her feel betrayed. At some point she’ll have to go to a more secure accommodation but her cooperation makes that point further away.

Actually, I use that if she doesn’t want to do something which needs doing. For example, she wasn’t keen on supervision for meds because she felt she was taking them. (She wasn’t most the time). So I asked her if she trusted me. She said she did. And I asked her if she wanted to stay where she was for as long as possible or enter a carehome. I know it sounds mean but I said it with love, not as a threat. She agreed she wanted to stay where she was, so she cooperated. We talk a lot about trust. She does trust me and I’m sure your father trusts you. In some ways you have to embrace taking the parental role - with money, arrangements, logistics, health - fully, not just doing the work but taking the choices - it changes so much and is terribly painful but it means you take control when you need to do so for their sake.

ny20005 · 16/10/2018 11:08

@needsomehelpwiththisone

You've been given loads of helpful advice that your choosing to ignore

The choice is that you so something or things continue as they are

Urbanbeetler · 16/10/2018 11:10

This will pass. This awful, awful stage will pass eventually.

needsomehelpwiththisone · 16/10/2018 11:12

What helpful advice have I ignored, exactly?

What am I meant to do? Hold him down while they "care" for him so he can't refuse?

Read the damn thread. Your comprehension is severely lacking.

And it's "you're".

OP posts:
Cornishclio · 16/10/2018 11:20

I think this is a much bigger issue than how to cope with visits to an elderly relative. It sounds like he not only has dementia and MH issues but is also very stubborn and only his daughter can fix his problems and alleviate his anxiety. The hearing is also a problem and incredibly frustrating. I am surprised he can still phone if his hearing is not very good so sometimes I wonder if these issues are selective and he can hear but sometimes chooses not to.

I know the sort of "assisted living" care he must be in. My MIL went in one before nursing residential care where she got the point she would not eat or drink. From the sound of it he is still eating and drinking and he has a warden on hand to deal with emergencies. You have done your best with that and he is warm, fed and housed. The cleanliness is his stubbornness. I am not sure how bad it has to get but if he won't change when the carers ask him to there is not much you can do.

As I said earlier you cannot change his behaviour, just how you deal with it. If he has always been difficult and won't make an effort to do the daytime activities (my MIL wouldn't either but she would engage with us) then accepting your limitations will alleviate your guilt. He is lonely because he won't make an effort to go and talk to others in the communal living room or dining room. He chooses to sit alone and won't do any activities except watch TV. Honestly I cannot stress this enough, shut off the feelings of guilt. Do as much as you are willing and able to do and eventually it will get to the point where he will accept help from others either willingly or forcibly when he is physically or mentally unable to resist. Awful, I know but what other choice do you have? Many of us have been or will be in this position. I just resolve to try to never be so difficult for my loved ones when I get to that stage in life. Difficult people don't become easier in old age in my experience. Any behaviours are usually amplified as I think most people get more selfish as they get older and their world shrinks. Understanding that may help you cope better if you don't try and fix him.

needsomehelpwiththisone · 16/10/2018 11:24

I am surprised he can still phone if his hearing is not very good so sometimes I wonder if these issues are selective and he can hear but sometimes chooses not to.

He says he can make out my voice on the phone because it's familiar, but not other peoples'. It wouldn't surprise me if it's selective, though. When we converse, he always says "eh" when I say something the first time, then I repeat it at exactly the same volume and he hears me just fine.

He says he has tinnitus and that they "can't do anything for that", so he refuses a hearing test.

OP posts:
tobee · 16/10/2018 11:26

I did read the thread.

I didn't say do what he wants. I just suggested about the tv programmes and that you're likely to have still awkward conversations even in a care home.

I was responding to my others blithely saying "it's a care home for him" as if that solves your initial question. I wouldn't particularly want to watch a load of tv programmes that my df wanted to watch either but I didn't see anyone ask why you didn't.

Not surprisingly you're upset but I think you've overreacted to my post.

I have a tricky dad in his 80s who is deaf, too.

needsomehelpwiththisone · 16/10/2018 11:27

OK, apologies. I'm just sick of being made to feel like I'm not doing enough to make sure he's "looked after". He's refusing all care. I've tried to set all this stuff up for him, he won't accept it.

OP posts:
IrmaFayLear · 16/10/2018 11:32

Absolutely agree, Cornishclio. I think we all have a personality, but try to moderate the rough edges. As we age filters tend to go, so a difficult/rude/nasty person will be seen in stark relief. A nasty/jealous/violent young person becomes just that and worse when they get old.

I think, OP, what might help is perhaps just focusing on one idea in this thread and doing that? Perhaps think today I will organise that Power of Attorney. Or today I will ask df about Cash in the Attic/Bargain Hunt and try to engage. Or really seize the bull by the horns and say you will answer the phone/call him at TEN AM and set a timer for him etc, but say that YOU WILL BE OUT other than that. You may need to say it ten times, calmly, but this seems to be one of the issue that is bothering you the most.

I understand the crying and guilt-tripping, I really do. Dm had to go into a hospice and was begging not to go, but her illness was beyond home caring (and she refused Macmillan etc) and I had a two month old baby. Mil, like your dm, had vascular dementia and screamed and cursed as she was carried off, and fil just couldn't manage by himself.

Cornishclio · 16/10/2018 11:32

He says he has tinnitus and that they "can't do anything for that", so he refuses a hearing test.

Frustrating, but you tried. A lot of it sounds like pure stubbornness on his part. This is an awful thing to go through but eventually it passes but he has to get worse which is tragic both for him and you. Do you have anyone to unload to yourself like a DP or close friend?

tobee · 16/10/2018 11:33

Don't apologise.

I just re read what I wrote and feel it was badly worded coz I was trying not to ramble on. What I meant was him being in sheltered accommodation is not good enough for him and for you right now in terms of care. So you will be feeling worried about his vulnerability.

needsomehelpwiththisone · 16/10/2018 11:35

Nope, it's just me. I do talk to my best friend sometimes, and sometimes I post on a very filtered Facebook post to people who I know won't judge, mainly about the phone calls when it all gets on top of me and I need to let off some steam. But other than that, no support. I guess I don't feel like I'm entitled to it, since I'm not doing any actual "caring".

The guilt tripping is awful. I have, to coin a phrase, lost my shit about that several times, to his face, and told him in no uncertain terms that it's bloody unacceptable.

OP posts:
OverTheHedgeSammy · 16/10/2018 11:35

needsomehelpwiththisone - the hardest things to accept are that people have the right to autonomy. He has every right to refuse care - until it becomes life threatening. You are not his carer.

But with accepting that he has the right to make decisions for himself, can you not accept the fact that you ALSO have the right to make decisions for yourself? His needs don't trump yours.

And by the sounds of what you have said about him, you have had a lifetime of dealing with his selfish behavior, as has everyone around him. He's lonely? Well bully for him. He has the same ability within himself to make friends as does EVERYONE else. Particularly given that there are other people in the supported accommodation who are in a similar position to him. If he doesn't want to, then the consequences of that needs to be HIS, not yours.

A loving father who wanted the best for his daughter wouldn't be putting you through this - which means he is not a loving father - which means you don't have the same moral obligations to him that other people would to their fathers.

But this is very hard to accept in your heart, partly because you have had a lifetime of him demanding that everyone around him put him first.

Cornishclio · 16/10/2018 11:36

It actually sounds like you are doing an awful lot to support him. You moved him down near you rather than just washing your hands of him, you take him to appointments and shopping etc. You speak to him constantly on the phone and visit him and you try and sort out his care needs and social interactions which he is refusing. You really cannot do any more than that and ignore the posts where people have just looked at the title and not RTFT.

needsomehelpwiththisone · 16/10/2018 11:36

Thanks, toobe. I'm sorry I snapped. I've got a bastard of a migraine today and I'm not thinking very clearly.

OP posts:
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