Need some help. Visiting my elderly father is excrutiating.

[needsomehelpwiththisone]

I've done a new account for this post but I've been here for a long time.

I am desperate for some advice about visiting my elderly father, because I feel like the world's biggest bitch and I don't know what to do.

Background: We have nothing in common. We did not get on well when I was growing up. I am an only child (relevant). My mother is dead (also relevant).

A few years ago, dad, by then in his mid 80s (now late 80s) moved into sheltered accommodation about a half hour drive from me having previously lived seven hours away at the other end of the country. There was really no other option as due to my own poor health I could not make the visit to see him any more and he was all alone and beginnig to struggle on his own. Until the point where he moved, we saw each other once a year, perhaps twice at the very most - I would go "home" to visit for a couple of days at a time and we'd both be climbing the walls after a day. Visits were only ever two days at the most. My father is very insular. Conversations consisted of "Do you watch this television programme?" and nothing more. He was never interested in anything I had to say, so I didn't bother to tell him what was going on in my life. It was painful.

Now he lives near me and is older and still on his own, I am expected to visit once a week. In principle I agree with this, he's on his own after all and I'm his only living relative. But I find the visits absolutely excrutiating and I'm beginning to put off going. We are not close, and we have nothing to talk about. He doesn't listen to anything I have to say, so there's no point telling him anything. I arrive, I take him to the shop, but this only takes half an hour at the most, and then I don't know what to do. We sit there in silence. He doesn't do anything except watch television, so I can't ask him about his day. He's also very deaf, so conversation is almost impossible, even if he was interested in anything I had to say.

He also insists on phoning me twice a day just to "hear my voice" (he can make out my voice on the phone, apparently, but nobody else's). I understand why, he's very lonely, but I don't know what to say to him then either and vice versa. I have no clue how to relate to him at all and never have done. Our relationship growing up was fractious and argumentative and unpleasant - he's mellowed with age - but there are no nice memories to sit and talk about. I sometimes take him out for lunch, but again, conversation is so difficult that we sit and eat lunch in the pub in silence and then I take him home again.

Please, what can I do to make these visits more bearable for both of us? Not going is not an option, since he will call me and beg me to go if I don't. I dread going. I put it off for as long as humanly possible. And I feel terrible.





And I think we all understand that toddler stubbornness.

I set up meals on wheels for fil, and then Wiltshire Farm Foods. He wouldn't eat them. "Disgusting!" He wanted to resume driving and go out to eat. He was adamant about it. Oh, that and another thousand things. Sadly, OP, you have to become the parent. It's difficult but there isn't much choice as time goes on.

Urgh! Why aren't my emojis sending?!

I'll try this way

🍰💐

(That's flowers and cake. For after the migraine?)

Sympathies on the migraine. Maybe step away from the screen now and do something you know will help you feel better. Put the ringer on silent. Put your dad to the back of your mind. He is safe and you are ill so have to focus on you.

O But other than that, no support. I guess I don't feel like I'm entitled to it, since I'm not doing any actual "caring".
*
The guilt tripping is awful. I have, to coin a phrase, lost my shit about that several times, to his face, and told him in no uncertain terms that it's bloody unacceptable.*

You are doing all the emotional caring and some of the physical caring. Some people I know never visit or help their relatives when in a care home and don't care at all because they were lousy parents. From the sound of it your dad was not a good father but you are still trying to help him. That sounds like a caring daughter to me even in the face of adversity with his stubbornness and your health. Give yourself a break.

I think this is a much bigger issue than how to cope with visits to an elderly relative. It sounds like he not only has dementia and MH issues but is also very stubborn and only his daughter can fix his problems and alleviate his anxiety.

That, in a nutshell, is the problem. Only I can provide respite from his anxiety, whether that's by getting me to pick up the phone or going to see him or whatever. I've told him time and time again that this is unfair, and in his rational moments he agrees, but when he's caught up in the panic and anxiety he can't see anything else than "must get hold of her", he's blinded to everything else and says "I can't help it and I can't change the way I am". It's not fair. I did not ask for this.

It began when Mum was ill with dementia and he'd call me every day to unload about how awful it was and every call would contain the phrase "it's so distressing". Yes, I KNOW. She's my mum. When she died, he didn't once ask how I felt about losing my mum, it was all about him. He still hasn't.

And that's why I hate going to see him, because he's abdicated all responsibility for his mental wellbeing (or at least lack of anxiety) on to me and I can't handle it, and I can't make him stop doing it.

Sympathies on the migraine. Maybe step away from the screen now and do something you know will help you feel better. Put the ringer on silent. Put your dad to the back of your mind. He is safe and you are ill so have to focus on you.

Thank you for voicing that I'm allowed to do that. It's never at the back of my mind. Is it allowed to be? I think about it constantly. I'm mentally worn out.

I understand most my suggestions may not be for you. I’ll shut up after this one I promise! But can you use the issue of the distress your mum caused to help him see he is doing the same thing to you? I imagine you have probably already tried this.

Best wishes and I hope things do calm down. I do massively empathise even if it doesn’t translate to anything particularly helpful in your specific set of circumstances.

It's never at the back of my mind. Is it allowed to be?

Most definitely yes. Your mental health is being affected by this. You are not responsible for him. If you had a DH or DC you would not be able to focus exclusively on him so the same applies to you. Just because you don't have other family responsibilities it does not mean you are at your fathers beck and call. You have other issues you need to deal with like your health, disability and work.

I would not set times for phone calls or visits unless for medical appointments, you may be ill or not up to dealing with him and it nags at you once you have promised a specific time. He won't die if you don't phone him or take his call.

I would not set times for phone calls or visits unless for medical appointments, you may be ill or not up to dealing with him and it nags at you once you have promised a specific time. He won't die if you don't phone him or take his call.

No, but he will call incessantly until I answer if I don't stick to the "usual" times, which makes my life a misery and stresses me out to hell and back knowing there are X number of missed calls.

He calls me at 8.45 every morning. He says "The worst part of my day is between 5.30 when I wake up until I can call you", like he's sitting there watching the clock waiting to do it. If I forget and don't have the phone with me (I've turned the ringer to silent for his number), for example, if I'm pottering around the house early or I've got an early student, I'll pick my phone up at 9.15 and there'll be about twelve missed calls, one every two minutes. Often, the only thing he wants on these phone calls is to know when he can call me again. He calls again at teatime. Sometimes I say that I'm working and I'll have to speak to him in the morning, then he leaves himself a note to call me in the morning and the whole thing starts all over again. It means I can't even have a lie in if I've got a migraine, because I know the phone will be ringing. Often I wait until an "acceptable" time to call him, just so he can't ring me, but that means staying awake. If for example I woke with a migraine at 7am and phoned him to get it out of the way so I could go back to sleep in peace, he'd take that as a licence to ring me at 7am every morning.

If I say he can call me at six o clock teatime, the phone starts ringing at half past five. I deliberately don't pick up until gone six because I don't want to reinforce the behaviour by giving in. I've started lying to him about when I'm getting in from work - I tell him at least an hour later than it is - just so that the bloody phone won't ring seventeen times in a row when I'm in the car on the way home, and all through my dinner, because it will, if I don't lie about it to give myself the extra time.

It's like being on a lead, and he just will.not.stop.

You have been given loads of helpful advice - read the thread again

Like your dad, if you choose not to do anything to change the situation, things will continue & get worse as your dads dementia progresses

ny, I'm getting really pissed off with your posts assuimng there is anything I can do to change the situation. What exactly am I meant to do to change the behaviour of a grown man who still has autonomy? I can't change it. I can't force him to do anything. I can't force him to accept care (unless he's restrained). The medical profession and care agencies can't force him to do anything as long as he still has capacity, which he does - that's the law. I can't make him stop doing what he's doing, god knows I've tried. He refuses. Kindly either read the thread properly and say something constructive, or butt out. Don't blame me for his bloody behaviour, because that's what you're doing.

So why did you post ? You said you're desperate for advice but won't do anything with it 🙄

You CAN change how you deal with the situation, you are choosing not to

I think everyone is sympathetic, needsomehelpwiththisone, but in order to ameliorate your situation, you need to do something .

I would do the POA. Saying "Oh, he doesn't know anybody" can be overcome; as you said, the GP will do it. You have to pay, but so be it. This is really important and will empower you when the time comes.

His being reliant on you is difficult, but I think you have made a bit of a stand with the times he can call. I would just pick up at those times. "Hi, Dad, I'm sorry, I've a migraine, speak to you later. Bye." No listening to how he tried to call/how he's lonely etc etc. He has made contact, and that is that.

I know it's hard, but to deal with people in early stages of dementia (let alone later ones!) you need to be a bit of a bully. Well, not a mean bully, but a brisk matronly type of person, telling them what you are doing. I know that the crying etc can get to you, but they are like a cornered rat and will try anything to get their own way. I loved dm, but I had to deal with her sobbing that I was betraying her when I arranged her a cleaner. "Can't you do it? Please don't make me let strangers into the house - I'll die of terror" etc etc.

Yes to the brisk matron! That’s exactly it but with a streak of love.

No, but he will call incessantly until I answer if I don't stick to the "usual" times, which makes my life a misery and stresses me out to hell and back knowing there are X number of missed calls.

Is he phoning a mobile or landline? Our phone only shows missed calls it does not show the number of missed calls. Can you change the setting so this does not display? This may stress you out less if you just resolve not to answer your phone and if it is silent from him and you don't know how many calls you have missed.

We had to do that in the end. We took one phone call a day and then screened them and did not answer MIL when she phoned for the umpteenth time asking the same thing she had asked five minutes previously which was usually "when are you coming over?". Infuriating I know, but it is self preservation to stop you going mad. Our phone was ignored much of the time, I would have considered disconnecting at one point but as you say the one time it is an emergency is bound to one of the ignored calls and we had children and my own elderly mum who might have needed help.

He has a warden though who should deal with emergencies.

OP I am so sorry for what you are going through with your Dad.
It does seem out of your control at the moment but, as some pp have pointed out, although you may not be able to change his behaviour you may be able to change your reaction.

I am in a similar but nowhere near as intense situation at the moment with my exILs. My exH died last year and for lack of anyone else I have 'inherited' them. Both of them are increasingly forgetful but my FIL, after years of being the family patriarch, is the most relentless intransigent old chap I have ever known. Daily calls (my DH is a saint), making random decisions and then carrying them through (and nagging everyone else until they enable this). He is nowhere near as physically bound as your DF, but I do understand on some level just how tiring it all is.

Accept that your DF is suffering from dementia on some level. It makes him intractable and believe that he is dependent on you.

He is not dependent on you: you have put systems in place to give him what care he needs, what socialisation opportunities he may want, plus a regular visit to do any fun stuff/outing/shopping he may want.

The fact that he refuses to use the services provided, to engage with the social opportunities IS NOT YOUR RESPONSIBILITY. You cannot argue with dementia, or fix it, or make it OK. Your DF will be anxious before he calls you, while you are talking, and immediately after the call. It's the dementia, not him. You are letting HIS illness rule your life. It isn't him you are appeasing, it's dementia.

Deep down you love your DF even if you weren't close, and you are feeling guilty that this burden feels so heavy on your shoulders. Don't feel guilty: it is a heavy burden.

When you ignore the call: you aren't ignoring your DF, but his dementia.
When you turn up at the same time as the carer and step in and say 'actually, please do stick the sheets in the wash; here are some new ones to put on instead'. (while not doing it yourself). You aren't going against his wishes, but his dementia's.
One thing I've found that works with FIL (which may not work for you but....is to follow up the call with what he wouldn't let me say. For example: He'll insist that he needs to come over at X time to discuss Y and won't take no for an answer. He won't let me say no on the phone, so I follow up with a blunt text: 'Please do not come over on Friday evening. It is very Inconvenient as we have a prior engagement and will not be at home'. Very blunt but apparently the only way that works for him.

Your Father has lost his inner self which is why he is so fearful. He only has one anchor point and he has to control it. Alas for you, you are that anchor point. Earlier in the thread I said move him closer and visit him more. I stand by that: little and often will boost his confidence and make him less needy while actually making each visit much less onerous. In the interim, maybe try a journal for him? Rules to remind him what is acceptable/normal and what is not. What you have agreed and what you have not.
We have tick-lists in my ILs kitchen. They refuse a cleaner (which they could easily afford) but the kitchen and bathroom were awful. We agreed (well I insisted) that certain things be done from a checklist every day/week/month. Otherwise they would agree to get a cleaner. We're 2.5 months in and no cleaner yet, but it took a year to get them to agree there was an issue (drip, drip, drip) so 2.5 months of regular bathroom and kitchen cleaning seems like a huge victory!
No-one can fix this for you OP. The mix of goodwill fatigue and mixed feelings and guilt is a heady combination. Good luck. I hope that one of my coping strategies may work for you. Either way, please stop torturing yourself. Your best is good enough.

His being reliant on you is difficult, but I think you have made a bit of a stand with the times he can call. I would just pick up at those times. "Hi, Dad, I'm sorry, I've a migraine, speak to you later. Bye." No listening to how he tried to call/how he's lonely etc etc. He has made contact, and that is that.

But I already do that. It doesn't stop him repeatedly phoning me. This is what I can't make people understand - no amount of boundaries, telling him, screaming, crying, whatEVER, makes him stop. This is not like a toddler where if you reinforce something enough times they learn. He does not learn. He will not stop. He won't leave me alone.

ny, OK then, if you're so clever, tell me EXACTLY how I change this situation, when I can not force this man to do anything? You can't. Because you're talking rubbish. Again, either say something constructive or stop posting. I have tried everything I can to change this situation - I've changed how I react, I've changed what I allow, I've got the relevant agencies involved, and he WILL NOT STOP. Which bit of that are you not understanding? Do you think I'm making this up?

When you turn up at the same time as the carer and step in and say 'actually, please do stick the sheets in the wash; here are some new ones to put on instead'. (while not doing it yourself). You aren't going against his wishes, but his dementia's.

Again, people ARE NOT LISTENING.

The carers REFUSE to do this. They refuse to insist upon it being done. They can not force him. They will not force him. They just leave if he refuses to have it done. And he will not allow it. The carers do not wash the sheets, they are only there for half an hour so all they can do is put it in the communal washing machine, and he will NOT allow them to do this, because it means he will have to get them out himself, and he can't cope with doing that and he just sits on his bed and cries. Meanwhile, he's sleeping in a bed where the sheets haven't been changed in a year because he REFUSES to allow it to be done.

To all those saying I need to change the situation, what EXACTLY can I do to change this? Am I meant to tie the man to a chair while they strip the bed against his wishes? Again, he has capacity. They will NOT do it against his wishes.

Fuck's sake , I'm just talking to myself. LISTEN to what I'm actually saying before making these suggestions.

To those who have made actual useful suggestions, thank you very much.

The fact that he refuses to use the services provided, to engage with the social opportunities IS NOT YOUR RESPONSIBILITY.

I know this. But knowing it DOES NOT STOP HIM FROM DOING IT. It's all very well saying it's not my responsibility but it doesnt stop him from BLOODY WELL DOING IT.

I want him to STOP. I want him to FUCKING LEAVE ME ALONE and stop phoning me seventeen thousand FUCKING times a day.

(( HUG ))

Have a cuppa. Come back in 10 mins and read your last post. Is it true? If so, change your phone number and don't look back.

If not, maybe try some of the suggestions on here, rather then shouting at us that we aren't listening, when I think we are. You are in a misery loop.

I suggest you change your phone number. Perhaps even have two phones - one you can turn off and the other for business/social purposes.

You sound more than very upset and people on here were only trying to help. The fact that we are on these boards means we know and understand what having an elderly demented parent is like.

It doesn't matter if I give him a different phone number. He'll still do it. I want him to STOP doing it. Why won't he bloody leave me alone?

I'm trying to post a screenshot from my phone to prove I'm not lying but it won't let me, there's no attachment button.