Support for those who care for elderly parents - drop in as you need, everyone welcome

[CMOTDibbler]

All of us would rather not be here, but we need to be - with the people who really understand.

Bob, this radio lets you cover the volume and tuning bits so it can only be turned on and off without knowing how to access them.

Thanks CMOT that's a great website and a really good radio idea. As far as i can tell it's the Roberts Elise radio with a specially designed lid on top to prevent fiddling. Wish I'd known about that website when Dad was going through his flooding the house phase, the magic plugs are really useful (I eventually found them on some other website).

That's a really good website- thank you.

Following on from my earlier posts does anyone have any experience of anti-depressants for the elderly.

I am instinctively opposed to the idea of a chemical cosh, but there are days when my mother struggles to get up, or indeed fails to get up at all. If happy pills made her happy, perhaps this would not be a bad thing.

NMS, I don't think they are AD's but DM is on Galantamine which seems to have sharpened up what marbles she has left!

NMS Dad was put on an antidepressant when his behaviour (agitation, aggression) was at its worst. It did seem to help with that. He does not present as depressed, but then he never did. Lashing out was more his type of problem and apparently AD's can help with that in dementia. He's on an SSRI, can't remember which one.

BTM, I think that is an alternative to Aricept that my mum is on. Unfortunately it only seems to delay the progress of dementia for about three years. DM has had about 33 months and there are already signs that her decline has accelerated.

Bob, useful. My sense is that it can't do much harm and might help. I assume part of the issue is that my mum's capacity ebbs and flows so at times she is aware of what is happening to her. A cemical cosh might not be a bad thing, and if she got worse she could always stop taking them. I will ask the GP what he thinks.

NMS, thanks - interesting to know. It is all such a guessing game as I guess a lot hinges on how old they are/other conditions, etc.

And I agree - if it doesn't work, then they can stop taking them.

Dad has had citalopram for some time. We are now stopping it as he is fine now he's stable on his home etc it did help I think- it's was started when I think he had more insight into things.

Hello all, didn't realise we're on a new thread.

BTM what a lovely note. My Mother was on Galantamine and it did make a big difference for some time.

NMS I'm sorry to hear about your Mum. My Mother has recently started Prozac but it wasn't agreeing with her it was felt with her sitting for hours with her ear to the phone trying to ring my Brother. She might have had another TIA though to be fair, who knows. Probably worth a try.

We've taken her off and have now a policy of minimum intervention, just enough to make her comfortable, she only takes water tablets and antihistamine when itchy. Desperately hoping to avoid end stage and hope a heart attack or stroke takes her first, isn't that awful to say. My Brother is finding it hard to visit now and she is starting to get a bit aggressive, banging on the table. Her walker needs searching for knives but she won't let them. Visit from my little nephew didn't go well and he cried when he saw her. Brother says she has a look of Dementia most of the time now. He's struggling but being philosophical and says he signed up for it. Selfishly I feel huge relief there are thousands of miles between us. She is receiving much better care than she did here which is something. Vile disease.

to all.

Hi , i have dipped in and out at various times also over on dementia but I would like to ask for your feedback before i try and go though the web.
Dad as vascular dementia (84) getting worse in jumps its not gradual. Mum has attendence allowance which up to now partially pays for his day care ( twice weekly).last SW visit ( rather rare normlly it is the CPN) she advised that he needed respite care and so they sent someone to financially assess them. It turns out that this person was there to assess for day care funding ( which we pay for ) and not for respite or for permanant care - which he will be heading for as shortly mum is just not going to be able to cope. After going through every bill, account the works ,she announced that when the assessment is done for permanant care that the value of the house would be taken into consideration. This house is going to be too much for mum to maintain and in the future it is likely to be sold. Mum is now in a complete panic that she will not be able to re purchase and that the money will have to go for his care . She is also paranoid that she will not be able to shop, maybe take a holiday ( a thing of the past) as all the money is going to pay for him IYSWIM. We know that they can't kick her out of house to pay for his care but what happens when it is sold and she wants to buy another place to live? Its not a mansion BTW. But it does require a bit of upkeep and its in the sticks,,,,,They are not rich , not poor - just doing ok !!! Any words of advice or where I could look would be appreciated.

SugarPlum, sorry to hear that your mum is now at this stage. But don't feel guilty for feeling relieved - you have done more than your share when she was over here

Rosa sorry to hear that your mum is so worried - I thought that when the spouse is still living in the house they couldn't be affected? I am sure someone who knows more - NMS? - might be able to give better advice. I just found this - maybe a look on the AgeUK site might have some more info?

Hi Rosa, sorry to hear about your parents

It's only my Mother so didn't look into the situation for a couple but I understood if the partner was over 65 they didn't take into account the value of the house. I'd ring the Alzheimer's society or Ageuk for advice.

Thanks BTM. How's your Mum?

DM is now saying she needs to go into a care home. She had a fall last week and was not wearing her call alarm so lay on the floor for a number of hours as no one knew she was there. Thankfully she hasn't broken anything and I think the lesson has been learned about the call pendant! But she now feels she's not coping alone even with the introduction of more carers.

She lives 75 miles away from me and DB1 (but I live 50 miles from DB) so has no family where she lives. I now have the dilemma of what to do about a care home. DB1 and DB2 (who lives 5 hrs away), lovely as they are, definitely have their heads in the sand when it comes to practical matters relating to DM.

DM says she wants to go to a specific care home near where she lives - just because it is run by nuns (i think). Her NDN, who used to work in a different care home says she wouldn't recommend the one DM is talking about. I don't see any actual benefit in DM going into a care home near her house as she doesn't really have friends there and as she will be self funding it won't be SC decision.

I have been looking on care home websites for homes in my area but most of them seem to say they are for demetia patients. DM is a little forgetful ( she's 87) but I wouldn't say she has dementia and has certainly never been diagnosed with it. ALso the CQC inspections on the homes I've looked at are 2 years out of date so virtually useless. I don't know anyone around here who would know firsthand about the reputation of these homes. How the hell do you go about finding out - other than descending on them unannounced to look around - but even that isn't going to tell me how well their medicines are managed for example?

Am I wrong to be considering moving her to a completely different area partly as it would make it easier for me (I have caring responsibilities here and am currently using most of my respite hours to visit DM). On the other hand it would also be a big committment for me as I would no doubt become responsible for taking her to appointments - which DB1 currently does.

DM seems to think this can all just be sorted out at the drop of a hat. She has some cash which would pay for the home for a while but her house would need to be sold and there is a lot of clearing out to be done first - which would be a nightmare as we don't live near - and DM (and DF when he was alive) won't throw anything out if it is still useable - even if she isn't/can't use it.

Where do I even start with all this. Obviously I need to have a serious discussion with DBs. Then I need to find a suitable home - easier for me to look around them here than in DMs area. I'm not even sure DM will like being in a home when she gets there. Is it possible to arrange a trial - like respite to see what she thinks first before committing to a place?

I know some of you have been through this so any advice would be welcome. Thanks

Sympathies, this is hard

Yes she can do respite. Pros and cons to moving areas, some CH's will take to medical appointments so something to look at, If you get SS involved and they agree she needs care then in theory they pay the first 12 weeks of care. They can also put a charge on the house until sold to give breathing space. They will probably be very reluctant to assess her as needing care though.

My Mother initially went into a CH that had a few little flats which is an option and Needsmoresleep's Mum Is in very sheltered housing which is another option.

With the house there my Mother was a hoarder. We paid a friend to do most of it, she'd done another friend's parent's house. Another friend got a house clearance company in once she'd sorted through the essentials of her Mum's house which came to £300 for them to do.

DH and I looked at about 13 places. Generally we did try to turn up announced to see how they dealt with unexpected visitors. It isn't easy doing this, especially this time of year so be very kind to yourself.

Big blue if you want to talk re home funding and , in theory getting some money towards the 1st 12 weeks if you have a property to sell ( called the 12 week property disregard) ping me as I'm fast becoming a bloody expert in it due to the fact I'm dealing with soc services who have not idea.

Basically you get an amount of money ( which us what they deem care should cost) towards care for 12 weeks. The bit we were badly advised on was that there was no savings limit on this. There is though. The usual 23k pounds applies ( if you are close then they will pay when you fall below that). If your relative chooses a different home there is a top up to pay. This gets stupidly complex apparently.

I'm now not going to access this as they want a new financial assessment including a nose round the conditions of mums will. I really can't face more of their incompetence.

I cannot wait to get a correct bill, settle it and get rid of soc services !

Does anyone think it would be a good idea to start a new thread with helpful hints on what we have learned whilst caring for the elders? A sort do check list.

I have been doing this for 5 years and at the beginning I was always asking questions. As time has gone on, I have been able to give advice based on my own experience. I had two ideas that have really helped me and would have been good to know at the beginning.

Yesterday I was given help with something that I would never have thought on my own, so now I have 3 things I can post.

If anyone does think it is a good idea, maybe you could suggest a thread title.

Thanks Helen but I don't think DM would qualify for that funding. She probably has enough cash to fund herself for at least a year if not longer. I actually think she would hate it in a home as she would be bored with no household tasks to do - hence why I think trying it out first would be best. She's not a great socialiser so wouldn't be keen on joining in any activities. She keeps telling me she can't cope but when she speaks to the Social Worker she doesn't seem to give them the same story about how she is struggling.

When she was taken to hospital last week I insisted she saw the Social Worker before she was discharged. The SW just asked he about how she makes meals - she has a carer in for 1/2 hour at lunchtime who makes her a sandwich and a cup of tea and DM sometimes heats up a ready meal at teatime if she can be bothered - but the problem is she can't be bothered most of the time and ends up having cereal or Complan. That was all the SW asked her about apparently. It is the general running of the house she is struggling with eg washing/ironing/changing the bed. SC won't help with that - although the carers are supposed to change the bed but they don't have enough time so I end up doing it when I go - along with the ironing. She has a cleaner to do dusting, vacuuming and bathrooms. Home helps were a good idea - why did they ever get rid of those? and don't get me started on why they thought frozen meals were a good replacement for a hot dinner delivered by meals on wheels!

florentina, I would love a checklist! Please

bigbluebus, aren't they all so different? My DM is adamant she does not want to go into a care home despite having been diagnosed with dementia!
She has carers twice a week for an hour each time which she pays for herself. During that time they do cleaning and help with stuff. She often sends them away early! Could you get the carers in for longer - like an hour a day instead? The ones DM has will even take her out shopping (but she would rather go on her own!)

Hello all- and sorry you have all this to deal with big blue. The respite idea is a good one- just to see what she really needs. Our county council have a phone line/ website with useful info- do you know any gps/ health professionals or physios who you could ask? Now is the time to exploit contacts. Vicars also- they visit care homes. A great question is would you consider this place for your dm/ grandparent? They have to be very careful not to recommend but see which ones get mentioned and which don't.
Visit unannounced- they vary so much. Age uk have helpful checklists etc. Is very sheltered accommodation an option?
You have so much on- make sure you take time for you too.

Florentina a checklist sounds like a good idea. As someone once said, there is no end of childcare manuals (and most of us would say that caring for babies, toddlers etc is easier because their needs and development tend to be predictable and of course they are little and you can over ride any silly idea they might have). However there is little out there to prepare people for the challenge (OK, ordeal) of becoming responsible for your parent's welfare.
BTM- once of the hardest aspects of elderly care for me is that the more dementia is in the picture, and the lower the capacity, the more the person insists they are doing fine and rejects the idea of assisted living.
Things with my Dad have reached crisis point (again) and I have started a new post, hope that's OK.

the sandwich Thanks for the advice. I know lots of HC professionals but sadly none of them work in the area of elderly care. I listen to local radio and sadly, all too frequently, there is a story on about yet another care home in our area that has failed it's CQC inspection or that a home is closing down. There have been 2 within a 5 mile radius of here that have closed in the last 6 months - the impact of people wanting to stay in their own homes. I think she have gone beyond sheltered accomodation now. If there was extra care near to me that might be ok but unfortunately they just seem to be building retirement apartments without the level of care that DM would require. There is extra care accommodation in her home town but I don't think it would work with us being so far away.

Having looked around respite homes for my own DD who has a severe LD and not being impressed at what I saw understatement of the year, I am not relishing the job of visiting care homes. Having a disabled daughter gives me a huge insight into the care industry - and not always in a good way .

Florentina a check list sounds like a great idea. This is such a new experience for most people and trying to unpick the system is a minefield. My own DS went off to Uni in Sept and I don't know how we would have got through the whole process without the help of MNetters on firstly the Secondary Education pages and then the Higher Education pages. They came up witht things I'd never even thought of.

Din't know how I managed in life before Mumsnet

bigbluebus, me neither

Can you imagine no MN My family would fall to pieces

BigBlueBus, it does sound like your mum wouldn't enjoy a home. My grandmother was antisocial and never participated in anything in the home, and I know mum would hate it too since shes so not a people person.

If you look for a cleaner who is prepared to do more, or a non agency carer, then they can do the extra bits for your mum. My cleaner has a couple of clients where she does the beds, puts laundry on, heats them up a meal etc. My dad needs the gentle nag that their carer gives him to have his hair cut, buy new clothes (she sends me a text too, but nags him), and generally do more than just eat and sleep