Responsibility for Elderly Parents? Support thread right here!

[Needmoresleep]

Several of us are on the same journey. Some more difficult than others, some longer than others, but none easy. Feel free to share tears, rants or laughter with others who will understand.

Hi all, may I ask? What age are your parents? 67 year old widow is too young for care, right? Apart from her age, a lot of what I'm reading here fits

My Mother is 76 and FIL is 88. 67 is pretty young but sadly sometimes things do go pear shaped.

What sort of things are going on?

DD now up with stomach cramps, my sleep attempts aren't going well.

Inability to deal with any paperwork or take any decisions since her H died, unable/unwilling to take care of herself - think full out woe is me mode, rather than let's pick myself up now and have some structure, healthy food, exercise, normal bedtimes again. No hobbies. Aggressive to her children. Possible alcohol issue. Complains about everything all the time.

Writing this down is making me reel.

SugarPlumTree, sorry you hear you are having such an awful time and thanks for responding nonetheless. Hope it gets better for you soon.

That sounds very hard to deal with . I have read that sometimes problems comes to light after partner dies as they have been muddling along, hiding problems.

I think in your situation I'd want to try and get her to a GP and get some blood tests done to start with - though I know that is easier said than done.

Blondie, it sounds awful. Do you have support from a MacMillan nurse? When my dad was ill (brain tumour and determined to die at home) they we good at helping unravel what was available. Their website also had some useful stuff for carers.

Topsie, hope you got some sleep. Has your mum seen a GP? I am not a medic but depression, hormonal imbalance or possibly early Alzheimers might be considered, plus I assume other things. There maybe scope for treatment. Even the progression of Alzheimers can be slowed with Aricept. Plus if a vicious cycle of poor eating, poor sleep etc is broken, things can improve.

My mum is older but it was horrid seeing her when newly widowed not coping. In her case, she was 80 then, it was Alzheimers. It took 4 years and a crisis before I could intervene. It was very difficult knowing she needed help but her and others not accepting it.

topsie oh goodness. No 67 isn't too young - she's a pensioner. My folks are 68 and 70. Make her go to the GP also to rule out any underlying causes.

SugarPlum how are things today? Sorry to hear you had such a rotten night and everything looks so much worse when you haven't had enough sleep. I may pop a Zopiclone tonight, but very early as I don't want to be woozy for school run/vet trip (cat suddenly off her food) in the morning before going over to my parents house.

NeedMore thanks, it is pretty grim.

Unfortunately there are no MacMillan nurses in our area, the lovely hospice supplies them instead but dad keeps sending them away because he feels it's too much on top of district nurses and carers . What makes the whole situation SO much worse is how fragmented it all is. Plus Dad was treated at Colchester, which was allegedly fiddling cancer waiting lists

I know what you mean re it takes a crisis before they let you help, so frustrating!

Thanks for asking. He has a blood clot (well bubble in the blood) they found on one scan and are doing a further one later. Assumably this scuppers chances for him to fly. I need to start a new thread. It would help hugely if one of us spile Spanish but we don't.

Hi, newbie here. Hoping to join this thread for a little support. I care for my elderly grandparents, my Nanna is 74 and had early stage dementia and my pops is 80 and has lots of things going on, it's like a battle everyday and sometimes I wish I could walk away, but I love and care for them too much to let that happen

Hi frogbubbles it is very very tough. Are you in touch with any dementia support services? Assume you have already seen this DH's granny has dementia and it's awful, she doesn't recognise anyone anymore and has some quite agressive episodes (she was a lovely kind lady).

Oh SugarPlum the language complication on top of everything - ugh! My heart does go out to you. I'm sure there must be some Spanish speaking MNer's out there who could help? I can manage some Italian & French but no Spanish I'm afraid.

Thanks blondieminx sorry to hear about your DHs granny it's must be difficult for you all. Mines very early stages so at the moment it's more frustration or forgetful outbursts. I'm trying to prepare the family as it's only going to get worse but enjoying (relatively) normal family time at the moment.

It's a horrible disease,, and one that affects the while family as well as the individual.

Thanks all. She was diagnosed with ADHD this summer. I looked on the net and (apart from medication) the strong recommendation is to have healthy, structured lifestyle. She will not. I have been telling her and trying to help for years. Now I am angry with her (plus feeling hopeless, guilty, etc). It seemed almost as though she refuses to turn herself around so as be the centre of drama. Now I wonder whether she has actually lost the ability (if she ever had it) even to recognise that she needs to change.

Topsie. Horrid isn't it.

I guess our parents, like us, have a right to make bad decisions as well as good. What then becomes difficult is if we are expected, or expect ourselves, to pick up the pieces. At time when health/care workers would ask my mum what she wanted, I wanted to scream "what about me". All well and good her saying she wanted to remain in her own home or stay in the same town, but no one seemed to consider whether I minded giving up a substantial chunk of my life making this happen.

Much as we might like to, we can really protect our parents from the impact of their bad decisions. My mother could well have died whilst living alone and refusing any form of help. I did not even have access to a spare key, and therefore was left fearing the worst each time I could not reach her on the phone. As a gesture of independence she thought it clever not to tell me when she had booked a holiday. Because obviously me wanting to be sure she was safe was "interfering". Later though she confessed that she had once got stuck in the bath and had really thought she would die there. Very luckily when she did have a fall she was outside.

(She was a big fan of those coach trips where they count you on and off the bus so you cant get lost, though bizarrely she booked herself on a month long cruise to Canada at a point when she was unable to cook, nor operate her heating, nor in fact recognise I was her daughter not her sister. When she got back she had to look up where she had been as she could not remember.)

Only with a crisis and a POA, can I do much. And even now I can find myself resenting the financial/asset mess (very luckily too much rather than too little - but no tax return for 5 years, probate not completed for my dad, and much more) and the adjustments to our life my family have had to make to our lives to accommodate her wishes.

When I got to about the fifth time of wondering whether she was dead or alive, did I sit down with my husband and children and ask for their confirmation that they did not consider me responsible if she were lying on the floor dying. I could not be responsible for her safety if she would not let me.

Oh I hear you, especially about fearing the worst when you cannot reach them and about giving up chunks of own life to try to make their wishes happen. Guess I can only wait for a crisis to prompt a poa - so then at least I have some power to deal with some of the most urgent things. But if she does need care, taking her in (as she wants) would probably kill me, so fingers crossed please that she will not need care yet!

Topsie really worth sorting out a POA sooner than later. The crisis could come in the form of a stroke or something equally incapacitating. Is there anyone she might listen to. The point of a POA is that you only use it in areas where or times when that person is unable to make decisions.

With POAs the focus is usually on advising the person on the rights they are giving up, not the duties the Attorney is taking on. If there is sufficient money I would strongly advise ensuring that the POA allows for charging expenses, and, if there is sufficient money there, for payment for time spent. Not having to raid the family bank account to support my mother, means one less area of potential resentment.

Is there scope for a middle way? Sheltered/very sheltered accommodation nearby perhaps. After a year of 6 hour round trips we had a light bulb moment and decided to buy a holiday flat near my mother. She provided a loan secured against the property, and we cover costs through holiday lets. (Big discount to anyone who has elderly parents living near a seaside town starting with B and not Brighton!) We can then visit her easily and have a break at the same time. The important thing is to identify a solution that is sustainable for you. Deep down, and as I got better at being assertive, I think my mother recognised that if she pushed me too hard I might simply walk away.

Much food for thought there, thank you once again. No there is no one she listens too. I have tried her closest friends. She will not make any other place work for her as she wants to move in with me. We already have a holiday let near her but it is only for holidays distance-wise (and sometimes, whilst DC are still young and cheaper, I wish I could spend holidays in a different place). Just cannot see the way through yet. I still talk to her but have mentally walked away already, hoping she could stay independent for a few more years. I guess I could tell her: sign this (nobrainer, to her advantage, mad not to) or I apply to the court for a poa?

Topsie I can't add much to NMS excellent post. One thing I will say is we considered taking my Mother in and every single one of my friends said don't do it. So glad I didn't, it would have been a disaster . I think you says it would kill you, even in jest, means you should think really hard about taking that step if the time comes. It is ok to say no.

I'd go for someone like a Doctor telling her to go and do the POA if you think there's any chance she might listen. A solicitor told me to do everything I could t get it in place rather thn have to apply to the COP. I'm hoping we're not too late to get one for FIL though had the added headache of needing one for Spain and one for here. He wouldn't even acknowledge we mentioned it whn we tried in August.

My fall-back is to blame my husband.

My relationship with DM has evolved considerably over the past 18 months, but till then she used a well practised routine of manipulation that had worked since I was a child.

Then Bingo I found the solution which was to say DH was not happy. She was of a generation that believed a wife's duty was first and foremost to keep the husband happy. Ultimately she was very worried about being left on her own. Therefore though she was willing to be abusive and aggressive to me, she was much more wary of upsetting my husband. If he set limits it was clear that the position was non-negotiable.

From what you say, your mum sounds very needy. It does not sound as if having her live with you is a solution.

On a different note, did anyone else spot the Tatler guide to Care Homes.

www.tatler.com/news/articles/august-2014/the-poshest-old-peoples-homes---part-one

This seems to be a truncated version which misses the care home Tony Benn moved to, which starts at £1,500 a week. New meaning to champagne socialism?

I like the quote " We start life in institutions, playing games and making pals. Why not return to them, to be cared for, fed and comforted?"

Sugar, good idea, will talk to the doctor. Also a lawyer re POAs - very worrying to hear you needed more than one, suspect I might too. Hope you got it sorted.

NMS, thank you for sharing. Rings lots of bells. I managed to find an aggressive/abusive H to follow on from my mother. He is now ex. But I still have to deal with my mother and I cannot use him as an excuse....

Seriously helpful to know I am not alone.

Topsie def sort out POA the point is to get in when you don't need it and the process involves a time in which it is inactive ( IIRC 3 months) so the person has to remain mentally competent for some time after it's been signed up

The important one is the Financial. I don't think anyone has ever asked to see the Care one. However if you are doing one you might as well do both.

Technically you don't need a lawyer. Information is here:

www.justice.gov.uk/about/opg

Indeed it looks as if you can do it on line. If things are pretty straightforward I would not bother. There will be lots of advice on places like:

forum.alzheimers.org.uk/forumdisplay.php?60-Legal-and-financial-issues or Age UK.

My issue is that there will be an inheritance so I am in effect managing money for other people, not just my mum. We did not use a lawyer, as things needed to be done quickly following my mother's fall. I wish I had insisted we did, as it would have been useful for me to understand better the responsibilities I was taking on, and the boundaries of what might be considered reasonable decision making, eg should I be using Financial Advisers or is it OK to simply do what I would do if it were my money. And what is my liability should I take money out of property, because I am sick of managing property, and put it into a "safe" stock market tracker and then the stock market crashes. (Or vice versa. Attorneys apparently have a duty to manage assets actively. The silver lining is that I have now read up on financial stuff sufficiently that we are a lot more savvy about our own pensions, mortgages etc.) If an Attorney needs legal advice they have to pay for it themselves and cannot, apparently, reclaim as an expense.

Actually DH has been amazingly tolerant of DM. But it does no harm for her to think she has to be careful. The art of the white lie. Explore a little and see if there is something that works. Deep down the fear of abandonment must be pretty universal and so, if the right constraint can be found, it can form a useful part of any negotiation. You need to find a solution that works for you. There is little point in giving way to her demands only to find yourself in an impossible situation.

Health and welfare only really important for Mum as Brother so far away. We're going to do it for FIL (fingers crossed) whilst we're doing the finance one but think lots of people don't. Given his families history I think it will help to have it with his wishes laid out. Assuming he has capacity.

We've decided to move Mum. Everyone is shocked when they see pics of her legs. The last place had them beautifully under control, now I think they have probably ulcerated. A bank HCA said to me why was I keeping her there and we should get her out which was the final straw.

She'll be going to one that I wanted her to go to but it isn't opening till end of the year. I've spent ages talking to the Operation s Manager who is great plus a trained counsellor, felt loads better after ! Brother spoke to him too and really liked him.

Off to visit the site next week complete with hard hat. Op Manager will visit her as much as we'd like between now and then and she can choose her room. We've visited their other Home and know someone who has a relative there and they are delighted. He also said today that they encourage you to apply for NHS Continuing care if they feel at any point you have a good chance of getting in plus thinks Mum with her legs and meds needs should be getting the £108 nursing allowance that I had forgotten about.

Hello. I was going to start a thread but may I butt in here instead?

I have two elderly and creaky parents and am finding it increasingly hard to cope. It's not so much the doing stuff for them (which is manageable) as the stream of phone calls from my mother in which she complains about how infirm my father is. My parents have always had a volatile relationship, but now she seems to resent him for being unwell and less capable. I understand it must be taxing for her, but it upsets me that she is so (verbally) abusive to him. I witness this frequently and this morning (even though she will not usually admit to any fault) she told me that she verbally attacked him yesterday after he had a mishap which made a mess.

I don't see any answer to any of this, so I suppose I'm just venting.