2:2 now not a 'good enough' degree?

[Cortina]

I saw a thread, earlier today, I think on AIBU. Someone was cruising for a 2:2 at Uni. They said that this wasn't enough to secure employment and many were agreeing.

In my day, insert old git icon , a 2:2, especially from a well regarded university, was a perfectly respectable degree.

Have things really changed so much?

well mine was in industry - half of it was in an R&D facility for a manufacturing company!

It's added value isn;t it MrsR? That's what I see the MA as tbh.

I am not sure my boys are academic: well ds1 has sn but ahs started to show signs, ds2 more of a people person. I'd far rather concentrate on where their actual strengths are and help tehm find a job theya re talented at and enjoy rather than automatically assume they will go to Uni.

DS1 wants to go into theatre and stage makeup and seems to have the aptitude (actually wants to be Gok); ds2 is wondrus with nature so conservation / animal and ecology field. so lots of encouragement and opportunities to see how it suits and develop their ideas.

DS3 won't work (SN) adn ds4 too yung as yet for ideas but certainly I see a degree as a good bonus but not better than natural talent and enthusiasm: and a degree, as DH and I have shown, can be taken at any age.

John Harvey-Jones

OOh GetOrf I know who you eman- BIL does a similar job to him in Avonmouth

Maybe you ARE bil?....

My Dad works in IT manufacturing in the States. He only employs MBAs into the junior roles. A role he got himself way back when without going to university at all.

Terrifing though for my DC who haven't even started school yet. DH wants DD to be a blacksmith and avoid all that!

GetOrf, she is being very sensible, though. Racking up debt and doing a degree she may find she didn't really want to have a job in 4 years down the line just to 'delay the world of work' isn't a good thing, either.

18-year-olds in the Forces who are single and childfree are not at a loss for fun, either!

She'll be in with loads of other 18-year-olds, too.

It looks great on a CV, shows real commitment, and it's entirely possible she'll discover exactly what she wants to get into and probably wouldn't have if she hadn't gone into the Forces.

Plus, the travel isn't a bad thing, either.

Believe me, I don't know anyone who regrets doing it.

As my cousin Jeff put it (he's 31 today!), he didn't really know what he wanted to do with his life but didn't want to appear aimless.

He had a blast in the Navy!

Yay Lonicera that would have driven me mad, trying to remember his name.

I used to think what the bloody hell do you know about anything, you can't even tuck your shirt in.

Internationally competitive?

• advanced degree
• fluency in one other language and basic grasp of another
• solid work experience (which is where international students often fall down)

I'm not in headhunting/international recruitment though! I'm just going by what my ex-MB who was in that field told me. "I'd hire you after interview because I know you and I know your attitude, your capabilities and your way of thinking which is what we need but on paper you're just not good enough to get there".

I was 20 at the time, 3 As at A-level, worked my gap year, Redbrick uni, solid 2.i in first year (where admittedly I dossed a fair amount), volunteering experience and part-time nannying work.

Her justification - I'd have to work hard to sell my degree (hence getting onto a PGCE is competitive....its like English Lit, your options are basically teaching), I didn't speak any other foreign languages (she spoke 4 fluently ) and I didn't have any industry work-experience.

But my application would at least be read and not binned.

Cold comfort, hm?

GOML - I know exactly who you mean. Double barrelled name, some sort of troubleshooter. What the hell was he called?

Industry placements are the way to go - I think a year in business or industry or any sort of real life work as part of the degree is the way to go. It should just be standard. DS1 has the academic qualifications, but apart from holiday bar work, very little work experience, and that's where he's going wrong. It's that chicken and egg thing - he can't get a job without experience, can't get experience without a job, can't afford an internship.

Lonicera - thank you

Well I heard a little bit of comfort at work yesterday for people coming out of university with 2:2s now - one of our clients likes to recruit graduates with the right personality and a 2:2 on the grounds that they spend loads training them and these staff don't all leave the moment they qualify.

Downside? It's a public sector organisation not in health or overseas aid so they'll be having massive cutbacks.

Turkeyboots: My Dad works in IT manufacturing in the States. He only employs MBAs into the junior roles. A role he got himself way back when without going to university at all.

V scary!

god, i just looked up my degree, and when I did it, the entrance requirements were BBC at Higher, now they're ABBB

it has been 10 years since I was there, but still, scary.

This is getting more and more depressing. No idea what DD wants to do yet (she wants to 'work with animals' so that could be anything ) but DS#1 is fairly set on engineering. It is beginning to sound as if he needs a first from somewhere really prestigious in order to get anywhere

Thanks again Expat - it is all; reassutring as I know NOBODY in the forces so it all looks completely frightening to me.

She goes to cadets anyway so does all the assault course stuff and is learning to fly a plane.

but it is my BABY in a bloody air force uniform which makes me reach for the smelling salts.

2.i will do. Firsts are still quite rare. Year in industry probably vital. Good university non-negotiable. Integrated Masters probably a good plan too.

I think the key is the value added on a CV. Employers are expecting 2.is because more people have them.

Get him doing work experience in various engineering firms (you could use MN to network!). In fact we should have a thread on MN where people swap work experience for DCs - say a lawyer has a DD who wants to do biochemistry, a biochemist has a DS wanting to go into engineering, an engineer has a DD wanting to be a medic...it could be like a babysitting circle!

If he's not taking a language then get him to pick up another/brush up what he dropped.

My DH is Forces. He joined after uni but seems to be getting on okay

I do some teaching for them and have fresh-faced 18/19 year olds who are having a fab time, going exotic places (living in an exotic place!) and getting top-notch training for free. Their work ethic is great and I can see how they'll be very employable in the future.

Thanks frakkit - funnily enough he has, against all expectation, taken to German and is voluntarily taking up Russian in his lunch hour. yy to the MN workexperience circle! Excellent idea

Orm - you are in Bristol aren't you?

If he is interested in engineering it would be a good idea for him to get involved with either Airbus or GKN at Filton (I have worked for both), or failing that Rolls Royce or MBDA (both at Filton also).

They do outreach programmes with local schools.

They also do excellent apprenticeships - they take on a load of kids each year, give them second to none training, and they end up with a qualification of some type in engineering, which they can then continue to study up to degree level. Really excellent companies to work for - they look after their trainees and graduates really well.

Failing that one of dd's air cadet mates is going to Bristol uni to do aerionautical engineering, and will be sponsored by the RAF (dd looked into this but does not want to study engineering or a science, qhich is a prerequsite for RAF sponsorship).

German probably an excellent choice for engineering. Particularly mech eng.

No not in Bristol getorf but not too far away. He's only in Yr8 atm but I want to make sure we're doing the right thing when the times comes.

this article, although a couple of yr old is interesting. www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/life_and_style/education/article4085862.ece

Oh, definitely, GetOrf. My friend Bob trained as an auto mechanic whilst in the Navy. When he finally went to university, he was able to work Saturday and Sunday and support himself with no added debt (his tuition and fees were paid by the Navy with a GI grant) because he earned so much as a skilled-professional.

He had wild times all over the world, too .

I know two doctors, former climbing partners, who were also in the Forces.

And one friend who's a paralegal and one who's a rather high-ranking civil servant.

Thanks Lonicera. The days the of starred 2i and first are not far way.

Also, no one seems to be pushing for more, better quality vocational/trades education.

I know several people who re-trained in a trade and became extremely successful businessmen with their own companies. One had a BBA and was languishing in a call centre bored out of his mind.

University is not the have-all-to-end-all.