2:2 now not a 'good enough' degree?

[Cortina]

I saw a thread, earlier today, I think on AIBU. Someone was cruising for a 2:2 at Uni. They said that this wasn't enough to secure employment and many were agreeing.

In my day, insert old git icon , a 2:2, especially from a well regarded university, was a perfectly respectable degree.

Have things really changed so much?

I graduated in 1982 from a Russell group university, and you really needed a 2:1 or First to get decent job offers or PhD funding.

The 2:2s and 3rds off our chemistry course mostly went into accountancy or teaching IIRC.

I think the UK will fall very far behind new economies such as India, Brazil, Far East.

I don't think we as individuals or comapnies will be able to compete globally.

Manufacturng - which used to be the UK's strength - has been diluited and has disappeared abroad. We still have our niches apparently, such as aerospace. Don't believe it. All our strength in this is going as well.

I have worked in aerospace engineering for years now, I am used to offshoring and outsourcing, we simply cannot compete withe the manufacturong costs of a developing nation. Now we are offshoring the capability - instead of working closely with design students/unis in the UK, all design work is getting sent over to India as it is far far cheaper. We will lose the intelligence and capability in this country and we will not get it back.

I work in scientific software and we tried outsourcing to India but (whew) the quality wasn't good enough so we reverted to UK and US(most of whom are actually brits and chinese!). Yes, I work in a company stuffed with PhDs with firsts or maybe 2:1s. We bloody well NEED to be elitist and aim high.

A 2.2 was never good enough and you be better off claiming to have spent three years in prison than admitting to a third IME

Frakitt - I've had this conversation with DCs school about just this and they say it is a delicate balancing act between informing the pupils but not terrifying them.

I think the impetus must come from us as parents, though. We need to help our children understand the changing world and not stick our heads in the sand.

A difficult balance methinks.

I got a 2:2 and it didn't seem to cause me any problems. But when I went to university i was amongst a very small % so any degree was valuable.

Just not the case anymore Orm.

No I know. Bit scary for my lackadaisical DS

Terrifying for everyone, I think.

Interestingly, friends from emerging economies are much tougher on their kids, telling them how it is from a young age, expeting a lot of them.
They think we are completely complacent.

Schools should be doing more to encourage certain things though - A-level choices and modern languages spring to mind.

Also after A-levels are done schools should be encouraging students to find placements for a month rather than spending 3 of those pissing around and stressing the importance of a rounded time at uni (although unis have their place for that as well you're more likely to remember your teacher telling you to get yourself down to Freshers Fair/Welcome Week and get involved).

Orm the same was true for my contemporaries.

No wonder the rush to tutor, the helicopter parenting, the landscape seems to be changing?

I ahve a 2:1 but not from the best of Universities so am ding an MA (and doing OK) to bump it up for when I go into the amrket again.

DH is at Uni (redundancy etcv) and is doing stunningly (got 100% in one module, 97% in another) so am hopeful for where he could get. It's all hard work and sheer grunt though that's getting him there.

Litchick, I agree. Although sometimes too much pressure is placed on the children and the 'non academic' are written off far too young, sometimes around 6/7.

DD is seriously considering giving the whole thing a miss and going straight into teh RAF at 18. Which I am not too happy about to be honest. I would rather have 3 years of fun and study before she starts work.

GetOrf, everyone I know who took this option, and there are many because it's very common in the US as it also provides the person with a grant for tuition and fees at a later date AND on-the-job trade skills, did not miss out on 'fun'.

Quite the opposite, really.

So I honestly wouldn't worry about that.

Three of my very close friends and my only first cousin on my mother's side spent 8 years in the Navy after finishing high school.

Then went on to have very nice careers.

A first cousin's daughter just finished her bachelor's of science in nursing and is off with the Navy. She'll be terrific experience and after 5 years she will have no more student loan debt.

And yes Orm agree; BIL has a third (which I know took him a few resits) and despite a few years unemployed now has a stunningly good job as an international trouble shooter for a major household electronics co.

Partly because of the fewer qualified people factor- but he did better than his contemporaries that got better grades.

Why? he has the chat, the personality for it. That will always over ride everything but only if you can get to interview stage. And when there's 70 people chasing every jjob that's an achievement in itself.

TBH the reason for me being out of the amrket isn't choice but once I have MA I suspect I won't have lost out through missing the current runs of applications. Indeed, I have been told by a Uni head of course that some professions- including teaching- are starting the move towards MA level entry now.

Sorry, missed out quotation marks.

'DD is seriously considering giving the whole thing a miss and going straight into teh RAF at 18. Which I am not too happy about to be honest. I would rather have 3 years of fun and study before she starts work.'

Do they still do sandwich degrees? With industrial placements? Because I did one of those, in the firm belief (not misplaced) that the period in industry would stand me in good stead in the interviews as "experience".

Is this still the case?

DS1 has recently got a First, from a pretty good Redbrick. He's really struggling to find a job - is applying for pretty much anything. It's depressing as hell - and students with a 2:2 have no chance.

And Ampere, I agree - it was so bloody easy for people of my generation (40s). We just had no idea. Free, quality higher education and a reasonable chance of a relevant job at the end of it.

Thanks expat.

I know there are wonderful opportunities for her in the forces - and I know I am being slightly pathetic in wanting her to delay the world of work for 3 years. Bit daunting that in less than 4 years dd may be going into the forces and train to be an officer, as opposed to going into halls with a load of other 18 year olds.

We really do need to concentrate on making sure that our kids are competitive against the emerging markets. How though? Christ I would have thought our kids are under phenomenal pressure as it is. But then I think of proms at the end of junior school, 16 years olds going on a piss up to Newquay after GCSE (dd: over my dead body) and 3 week long freshers events, and it makes me think again.

I am in engineering procurement - I buy nothing from the UK any more because none of it is manufactured here. It is completely different in Span, Italy, France, Germany. They have protected their industries and still have a strong manufacturing base. We sold ours down the river years ago.

Yes, I finished my degree with sandwich year in industry last year. I elarnt more from that year than most of the degree course.

Sorry I have gone completely off tangent there - i'll shuddup.

lol i LOVE that " in industry"
you hear it a lot in teaching
i always imagine blast furnaces

thumbwitch - some do, yes. I did a year in the workplace (in a research lab overseas rather than industrial) and it stood me in good stead! got an M.Sci out of it, as well as a fiance!

I am like that big fat bloke with a moustache who used to be on telly all the time talking about industry.

God I could bore you all to death couldn't I.

What was his bloody name again?

I alwasy laugh at the word workplace as it reminds me of David Brent.