part time teachers HELP with parents evenings on days OFF

[GordianKnot]

ok so i do three days
parents eve always on day off
dont mind dointg EXAM classes at all, but in KS3 is complusory subject so its tough titty really.
so i said " are you goign to pay me or not expect me in"

teh solution they propose is that my LOVELY HoD reads out what i write down

dont know what do do

'Industry is good' - in what way?

'and very sought after by schools.' - why so?

MOst people with integrity only make promises at interview that they are likely to keep. I would be very surprised if staff at independent schools were somehow better at keeping promises than those at state ones. Maybe staff at ind. schools make far wilder promises at interview? Who knows.

MmeBlueberry - I'm guessing you have very little experience of state schools. Most teachers do way over and above their 'directed hours'!

This really doesn't need to become a state/private issue. It's about the legislation around part time working, and how viable it makes part time working from the employers perspective

Of course it doesn't need to be a state/private issue. It is, in fact, ridiculous to make it such. And it doesn't ned to be an always-a-teacher, other-work-experience issue either.

Industry gives you life experience, as does parenthood.

My students are captivated when I start waxing lyrical about my previous life. No one could describe it in the same intensity as someone who had 'been there'. The contacts are good too. With 'how science works', it's an increasing part of the government agenda.

Straight-out-of-school teachers are great, but they don't bring anything extra to the mix. I love the ones we have on staff, though.

More than half my teaching career has been in the state sector.

I only bring up the private/state thing because of this infamous burgandy book.

Being willing and able to offer 'extras' has always been part of an independent school job spec. It is very, very important to the school.

If you think about one of the main focusses of a school prospectus and newsletters, it is often the extra curricular stuff. The curriculum learning is a given.

'violethill, if the school has parents evenings on a Wednesday, then they should ensure that part timers work that day when they are timetabling.' - have just noticed this.

No, tethersend, not possible in a large secondary school with maybe 100 teaching staff including part timers who work different amounts. Remember it's not just parents evenings - there will be other important meetings and events in the evening too. Are you really suggesting that the school should work around every part timer? Impossible. Remember too, that many community schools have many other activities going on in their halls in the evenings, so it would be equally impossible to say 'Let's rotate parents evenings around'. My school, for instance, always does parents evenings on Wednesdays. At various other times there are choirs/ plays/ yoga/ taikwondo/language classes etc etc etc ...... happening in my school. It's simply absurd and impossible to suggest that the school revolves its calendar and timetable around the part time staff.

Define 'industry'. Because it seems as if you are excluding people who worked in the state and not-for-profit sector before entering teaching.

And if the main benefit is that it has given the teacher 'experience' and provides entertaining stories for the pupils, then I doubt that merits it being called a 'good' attribute for teachers. Teachers who write stories or books in their spare time, or who are part of a mountain rescue team would be equally good at telling interesting stories. (Some would argue these sorts of tales would be far more entertaining.)

The government agenda of relating everything done at school to the world of work is a controversial one.

I think you can take industry as in the broadest sense of the word - working outside of education in a broadly relevent field.

I worked doing R&D in a FMCG, and it has proved highly relevent to what I teach. I am also rolled out as a role model every so often .

I think that almost anything that you do before going into teaching is going to enrich your teaching. This doesn't mean those who are teachers at age 22 are in any way bad. A mix is vital for any school. The more diverse your faculty, the better it is for your students.

I don't think 'industry' has a very broad meaning though. But I see what you are saying.

The argument seems to have splintered off at tangents now!

violethill, I do understand what you are saying about the difficulties schools face in employing part timers. I have always worked in schools where parents evenings were rotated and/or days given over for 'parent consultation' which worked incredibly well as it focused on one year at a time with only that year group off school and only form tutors needing cover for that day.

My issue is that the responsibility for these difficulties should not be placed on the shoulders of part timers by expecting them to work, for free, on their days off. There is indeed a wider issue, and the fact that the legislation has been recently amended seems to substantiate this- but the idea that the issue needs to be resolved by relying on teachers' goodwill is a shaky one. Most teachers do do above and beyond, and most heads give incentives to part time staff to go the extra mile; however, some do not, and it is those schools for which this legislation is vital.

You are seeing this through the eyes of the employer, I through the eyes of the employee.

MmeBlueberry, I assume you are joking when you say you have never heard of the burgundy book? Not that it is relevant to those working in the private sector, but as you have spent half of your teaching career in the state sector, I find that staggering.

"I do not like sneering at successful teachers (whether their willingness to have creative lessons or work out of hours)"

I am at a loss to see where anybody has sneered at 'successful' teachers (whatever your definition of that is) on this thread. Nice to know you assume I'm not one though

I agree with violethill completely on one issue- this does not need to turn into a private vs. state school debate. It would be a shame, as so many threads on MN degenerate into precisely that argument.

I have honestly never heard of 'the burgundy book', but then activism has never interested me. I just get on with the job.

As for parents' meetings, we have them during the day in our school (controversial given that there was a huge topic on this in the last week on Mumsnet).

We do them the first day of each holiday, which effectively means either a Wednesday or Thursday. We rotate the times - 8am - 1pm, 9am - 3pm, 1pm - 7pm, so hopefully a parent is able to attend one of these events. We would expect teachers to attend these events too. If they are part-time then probably 2 of them, if they are on days off. We all have the power to rule out blocks of the day, so a part-time teacher can do that too. I have certainly known part-time teachers to declare that they are only available for a 2-hour slot - other than that, their management structure kicks in, which they have prepared in advance.

But the burgundy book details all of your terms and conditions. It is madness to accept any job without being aware of what these are.

That's the first time I've ever heard the School Teachers' Pay and Conditions document labelled as 'activism'

Did you take any maternity leave, MmeBlueberry? Or is that reserved for activists too?

I was given a ?12 page documents with terms and ocnditions, much of which said 'at the request of the headmistress'.

I did have maternity leave - both when I worked in industry and in my first teaching job. My first maternity was statutory only; the second, the 12 weeks at SMP was upgraded to full salary with no conditions attached. With my teaching one, I was given 100% pay instead of 90$% for the six weeks, but had to pay back the enhancement when I didn't return.

Not sure why I am supposed to get excited about teachers' maternity leave. I had a better deal with my former employer.

Christ on a bike.

You do know that this dreadul 'activism' you speak of brought about paid maternity leave, don't you? Even in industry!

*dreadful

I really don't get what you keep going on about. Maternity leave is statutory and pre-dates any teacher agreement that is in force now. It really doesn't excite me.

And how do you think statutory maternity leave came about then?

Activism perhaps?

Thank you Tethersend for saying everything I would want to say but I am far too tired to string a coherent sentence together

MmeBlueberry I also worked in 'industry' for several years before becoming a teacher and it made bugger all difference to my ability to be able to teach.

For any of you who think us part-timers are slackers, I will probably have to spend half of Mother's Day marking and planning as I didn't manage to finish it today. Hey, maybe I should claim overtime on top of the money I claimed for working parents' evening...

I don't really care how it came about, TE. If it didn't exist, I would have got on with life regardless. In the grand scheme of my life, maternity leave has played a very small part. It's not something I personally attribute to teaching unions.

But Mme B, I don't think Tethersend is talking about maternity leave purely in the context of teaching - it is a wider argument than that. I know people laughed when Tethersend mentioned mill owners earlier, but it isn't all that irrelevant. It is about having rights and being paid appropriately for the work we do. These have been hard-won and need to be respected. Maternity leave was fought for and although it may not have been important to you, Mme B, I think most families would struggle enormously without it. Almost nobody would argue that we shouldn't have it (she hopes).

There are a whole load of red-herrings going on on this thread. Public/private, the 'I work harder than you'insinuations..etc. The real point is that part time workers need to have their part-time status protected, otherwise what is the point in being part time at all? It doesn't matter what people CHOOSE to do above and beyond their contractual obligations, the important point is that they have rights to properly proportional pay and there is legislation to protect this.

I really don't see how it's such a massive issue. After all, it's legislated. If it is important for the school that a part-time worker work extra hours in school then they should pay them. I don't see why that is so controversial.

Having 'rights' doesn't mean you should steadfastly exercise them at the detriment of your own career, work environment, ease of working, and the needs of your cliets.

Of course, if you feel it is a matter of principle, then that is your choice.