"Mumsnet hate private schools"

[Swedington]

I read this in the newspaper recently. (I think maybe it was a quote of Justine's.)

I know there are some posters who are to Mumsnet what Bob Crow is to the London Underground (hope you saw him on HIGNFY), but I don't think there is a huge anti private school thing going on here is there?

CertainAge Wed 02-Dec-09 19:58:24
And the knock on to society - well-mannered, polite, motivated, love learning, ambitious, full of self-belief....

State schools do that as well, you don't need to pay for that.

I said what the problem was, for me, in my post above.

Simplistic bs

Because if all children had to be educated together and every school had parents who were involved and cared we would see standards rise. There would be more schools like the one I teach in and less like the ones I used to teach in. It won't be perfect but it would be better,

i have had children at many different schools now and only twice private for brief spells

there are imvho intrinsic attitude differences in the parents

at the private schools (call me paranoid) i personally feel more 'judged' than in the other schools i have experienced.

there is definitely a difference in the parking habits of parents

Are you not following what I'm saying. The way we educate our children affects society. Without question. I believe as part of that, that there is a negative effect on society when some children are educated in a separate system. There is no closed system, and therefore in this discussion, what would be the point of imagining one. If you are talking about the whether I would like to see smaller class sizes in all schools - well of course I would . But my argument against private schools is about their place in society to everything else. So viewing them in isolation is irrelevant. I don't know what you mean by 'state centric'.

Nothing stopping parents in either sector getting involved and being supportive. I'm not sure which system is alledgedly lacking looking at the last few posts.

Oh it took far too long to type that and xposted with everyone!

There is only a negative effect if that's how you want to perceive it. It's your paradigm, but an entirely voluntary one.

Parents are not going to get involved if:

1. They are in and out of prison
2. Are scared stiff of school]
3. They can't read
4. They are at home drunk or high
5. They are working endless shifts just to pay the rent
6. They don't care.

That made up most of the parenting body at my old school. I think changing 10 familes in each year group would have made a difference,

How is that the fault of independent schools? Why is that a reason for abolishing them?

I said in my post above, these children were being educated in a ghetto of underachievement because so many children in their catchment were going to independent schools.

I keep hearing that independent pupils are mediocre, spoon fed, undeserving of university places. I hardly see how they could be an asset to state schools.

Methinks that ideologies have been muddled.

I don't think they are any different to state school pupils in essence they are just able to buy better opportunities.Every one should be educated together that way some of the politicians/lawyers etc they produce might have met some of the people they will eventually work with/for

Why is that important, Noddy.

I personally have no contact with anyone that I went to school with 25+ years ago, except for a handful of contacts on Facebook in the last two years.

I don't see how my schoolfriends impact on my ability to do my job or my values towards my job.

Are you saying that future lawyers should be aware of future criminals? Being in a large, typical comprehensive school of 1500-ish pupils, I am pretty sure that both candidates would make a point of keeping as far away from one another as possible.

OK - genuinely interested question here. Those who are idealogically opposed to the existence of private schools: Do the wider implications of the degree of state interference in individual freedoms implied in forcing every one to educate their children through the state system not worry you? Because it scares the living daylights out of me.

Me too, stealth. The state already has way to much involvement in the minutae of our lives.

stealthsquiggle there are many ways that the state interferes with individual freedom this is what makes us part of a functioning society. I am happy to pay taxes for example. I am also happy that it is illegal for people to own guns. I would like there to only be state schools. I believe this would be for the greater good of our society. The fact that people find this idea so scary just shows imo how terribly segregted we are.
I have worked with terribly deprived chidren. What message am I sending them if I wont even let my own children be educated along side them?

I didn't say that the schools should be closed. In fact, I sais that people can choose what they like. I do think that it is wrong to choose the private system though.

I do find this whole argument difficult. I think there is a certain validity to the argument that the existence of private schools damages state schools. I say this as a parent who moved her children from the state sector to the private sector.

I even think it is wrong to buy privilege in education! But, but, but......... my ds1 is odd and was a complete fish out of water in his state school - he is so much happier now. How could I sacrifice his happiness for a matter of principle?

Metella I think it is really hard and I dont blame you for wanting to do what's best for your child. Nor do I hate private school children as was strangely suggested as a prevailing attitude on these topics earlier in the thread.
I do however question that private school was the only solution for your son (although ofcourse I cant possibly know)I also think that to put children in private school shows a great lack of social responsibility. Thats not to say that there arent times we are all pushed or pulled into acting in ways that arent thinking about whats best for society.

To those who think that state schools would be improved by closing all private schools - what is it that the approximately 7% of pupils/parents that are currently privately educated could do that the other 93% aren't already doing?

I have never said that of independent school pupils, we may not agree and I suspect we never will but I would never be rude about a child.

It's interesting how politicians of all political persuasions use the word "choice" when they, in fact, mean "money".

Sadly, one sees that on here too in these arguments about "individual freedoms" and so on. Yes, great, let's celebrate and foster individual freedoms. Aren't they wonderful? And aren't they even more wonderful because they, seemingly, are not given by right but have to be paid for?

UQD I agree that choice means money. But I think it's true in the state sector as well as in the private independent (natch) sector.

I've often thought of compiling a hierarchical crime table for tertiary education.

I don't think paying for education in a straighforward consumer transaction is the worst crime. Out manoeuvering a poorer family by moving to an expensive house backing onto the school grounds would make me wrestle with my conscience more. And faith schools using arbitrary rules to control their own admissions is worse still.

It's odd, isn't it? I couldn't bring myself to move house to get into the catchment of the high-performing comp just over a mile away as it just felt morally wrong to do so. Yet I pay to send my children to school - somehow it just feels more honest to do it that way and less likely to damage a poorer child (although my child could still be taking a poorer child's place at private school).

The comp in question went to the Schools Adjudicator a few years back to try to get "historic" siblings as part of their admissions criteria because the catchment area had become so small the nearest council estate was now outside it. They failed so all of the children now come from expensive private housing nearby - the new headmaster says that this makes his school "lucky".

Re the point made earlier by ra29needsabettername about my own ds - in fact I approached local state schools before the private school but no-one had a place for him so private school was his only option.