"Mumsnet hate private schools"

[Swedington]

I read this in the newspaper recently. (I think maybe it was a quote of Justine's.)

I know there are some posters who are to Mumsnet what Bob Crow is to the London Underground (hope you saw him on HIGNFY), but I don't think there is a huge anti private school thing going on here is there?

'It irks me when people try to assert that their private school represents all social classes and financial situations.'

I beg to differ. At the prep school DC1 and 2 used to go to there were people from all walks of life. Of course you had the very rich with their 4 x 4s, Bentleys, Porsches etc. You had the new money and the old money but you also had 'normal' people from normal backgrounds. There were some single parents and quite a few of the children were in receipt of large bursaries.

There were the parents with villas in the south of France/Carribbean where they spent all their holidays and those that went camping for a week in Selsey for their summer holiday (I fell in that camp with another single parent one year) Funnily enough though, whilst we were there we bumped into one of the other 'rich' parents who was also staying there.
You did have the clicky little clubs but you also had a lot of really nice parents who were not at all snotty or snoby.
Not all private schools are the same and it is wrong to stereotype

I bet that you didn't have the child of a single parent in B&B accommodation from the inner city!

unfortunately not as the school was in the country and the commute would have been too long!

I think ABetaDad has summed it up very well early in this thread.
There is an impression that 'Mumsnet' (as some kind of single entity ) hates private schools because the people who oppose them are so very vocal on here, and give a biased impression.

I suspect there are many, many MNers who (like myself) have kids at private school, but simply have no desire or need to waste time getting drawn into the inevitable debate on the private vs. state threads.

I know why I have made the choices I made for my children, and I am very happy with them. I don't feel any need to discuss, debate or justify those choices, and when I see a private/ state thread I just think and move on to something more interesting.

Seems quite the opposite from the title to me - they seem to get an inordinate amount of love on here compared with RL. And a disproportionate amount of discussion.

I understand what you are saying mumoverseas, and certainly I know lots of people who educate privately with very modest lifestyles and/or scholarships-however certain sections of society don't have a hope of affording it, even with bursaries and scrimping and saving.
This doesn't mean that I think we shouldn't have choice. People should be free to have whatever suits them and DC- whether state, private, HE , selective etc. Not affording it isn't a reason to abolish it!
I had quite an argument recently with one poster who had had a top public school education (so had her husband and parents)and they were sending their DC to state schools. I had no argument with that, but she was then saying that we should all do the same-it seemed very unfair to me that she would have denied to other people what she had already had herself and anyway she was 'cherry picking' the very best of the state system!

When I first joined MN I was shocked at the vitriol poured on my children purely because they were educated privately...

They would never have any street smarts, yet they would become addicted to drugs. They would be hot-housed to within an inch, yet get terribel results because they weren't that clever. In fact they would be chucked out of uni because they wouldn't cope having been spoon-fed.
They would be arrogant and self serving, yet have no real confidence.
A recent thread described private school kids as 'fat and lazy'.

As for me, well...I was frightened of state education, having no experience of it ( ME, dh AND ALL my family were state educated, and I volunteer in m local primary). I was disgusting for buying priviledge, yet should be quite clear that I was wasting my money...

Then I realsised it's the same handful of posters who peddle this crap. So now I just join the fray and enjoy.

i think its wrong to attack personal situations, however i maintain the principle that some parents should not be able to BUY EDUCATION.

education is a right. We shouldn't throw away the ideological becuase of invividualistic attitudes.

our education system should be nurtured, all children should afford the same great level of education.

this and healthcare is something that one should not have to buy.

Since when do you have to sign up to a pre-prescribed set of views to be on MN ?

State schools work well for some DC. Private schools work well for others. There are good and bad schools in both camps. Most people don't have the choice anyway, and those that do have the choice are free to make it for themselves and their DC. I have never felt the need to apologise for the fact that DS is at a private school, and we are definitely at the less well off end of the spectrum of parents.

I have chimed in on occasion on threads where people are worrying that their DC will feel excluded if they can only just afford the fees, because I went through private schools in exactly that situation and I don't think it's a good reason not to go for it.

..but mostly I just think that there is no such thing as a MN consensus on anything, and nor should there be.

Custardo - there is a big difference between "should not have to buy" and "should not be able to buy"

I never understand this idea that no-one who is from a poor family ever goes to private school.

I know of a single parent on benefits whose son went to a highly academic private school - she only paid a tiny sum towards it.

Recently another school was in the local rag for giving a free place to the child of asylum seekers (also on benefits).

It does happen, you know!!!!

point conceded stealth thank you for pointing that out

yes metella, it may happen, but should it happen at all?

there should be one education system. Why should some children be afforded something better than other children?

In theory, I agree with you, Custardo, but there is such a difference in provision of state education that even if it were all that were on offer children would be getting widely different educations.

It would still not be fair.

Just as it isn't fair that some children have lovely homes in the country, and some live in damp inner city tower blocks. Some eat fresh cooked organic produce, some live on crapola. Som ehave lovely parents and sadly some have parents who don't give a shit.

We can't make it fair and equal can we?

If anything, Mumsnet is biased towards private schools...only 6% of the country is educated privately and yet it appears that approx. 30% of the posters send their children to private schools.

That's true Builde.
And it is only a handful of posters who are spiteful...

Those that want to have proper discussions about education, I will always listen to.
But those that just want to endleesly be mean and peddle a story about how their next door neighbour's brother's ex girlfriend got anorexia at private school I can do without.

A number of posters feel the need to justify their decision to send their DCs to private school. It surprises me how many of those justifications are centered around misconceptions or the fact that their child has some special additional educational requirement that can't be met by the state sector.

A certain percentage use the private sector because of the fantasic wrap around care on offer and as they are used to paying expensive nursery fees the financial transition to private is easier.

Some state school educated parents that use the private sector feel that they have infiltrated the system and they have no real right to be there. Whilst others take their role as consumer to the extreme.

Over 50% of parents that use the private sector were state school educated. I suspect that these are the people that we most often hear from on MN. Their 'evangelising' definitely seems to annoy some posters more than others. Probably their 'went to a really great state school' educated contemporaries who feel that they have somehow 'sold out'.

You don't hear enough from the posters who do it because they would never contemplate the alternative, with the exception of Xenia.

Still, I love the debate and feel that there is much to be learned and a spot of soul searching to be done.

Seeker - "It irks me when people try to assert that their private school represents all social classes and financial situations."

Most private schools really do represent all social classes. But only very exceptionally all financial situations.

I've taught in both private and state schools. There seems to be a perception that if you pay for education it is somehow intrinsically better. Now I'm not against private schools. For some children, especially those who need a secure environment with a high staff to student ratio, then private schooling can be a godsend. However, the belief that teaching is somehow intrinsically better in private schools is demonstrably wrong. The worse teachers I've ever encountered were in some very famous private schools with massive fees.

It annoys me this "if I buy it it must be better" attitude that I encounter, not only on mumsnet might I say. IMHE the biggest contributor to pupil achievement is parental support.

slug - "However, the belief that teaching is somehow intrinsically better in private schools is demonstrably wrong. The worse teachers I've ever encountered were in some very famous private schools with massive fees."

You are right about that. Having been a pupil in a private school and now a parent with children in private school I can confrm there are some really bad private school teachers. Some of the best teachers I have ever had were at my state Primary as a child.

I'm with Custardo on this. I just think it is intrinsically unfair that one can buy an education and all the advantages that go with it.

It's not personal, my DCs are/were at state grammar schools so I am not jealous.

What matters is that those 'average' children in the private sector get much better results and thus places at top universities etc. And, understandably, that is what people are paying for (although not the only thing).

But what about those children who most need a good education, those who are the most deprived and needy? Not mine, or probably most of yours, but those who are shoved off to the worst schools because no-one else wants to go there?

I think this is where the education discussions get very emotive. Many posters who educate their children privately simply refuse to accept it is unfair.

It's unfair with the present grammar school system as well because of the tutoring which is only available to those with spare money, although I still contend there are a few (ahem) who get in without tutoring, but I've seen contempories of my children who are just as bright who have lost out to the heavily tutored children from private primary/prep schools.

The whole system needs a shake up.

And the whole examination system needs a good shake up too while I am at it!!

Some children are being deprived of even being entered for higher grades or 'proper' subjects in some state schools, whereas their private school contempories (of probably the same basic intelligence) are merrily doing all GCSEs in academic subjects.

Children and parents are being fooled into thinking diplomas and GCSEs in daft less academic subjects are really equivalent to 10 GCSEs in proper academic subjects, when they are simply not accepted by universities. It drives me absolutely mad.

Here's a thought.

The sort of people who regularly post messages on parenting forums tend to be degree educated middle classes who are comfortable writing at length and have no issues surrounding access to ICT, and also know how to frame an opinion, comment or argument.

Such people, usually, are very often in high income families. It is high income families that send their children to private schools.

So, one would assume that there will be a higher percentage of mumsnet members that use private schools compared to mothers as a whole. And those that don't will be articulate and able/confident to post their opinions and thoughts.

Ain't rocket science, is it[hmmm]

As a rule I will only post in a private school thread if people do one of two things.

(a) Indiscriminately slag off the state system or otherwise post sweeping inaccuracies about it.

(b) Inaccurately argue that private education is just one of many "choices" available to all.

That's it really.

Litchick - you know my neighbour's brother too?