Private educaiton - is everyone really rich that sends their kids?

[Clare123]

We are fairly wealthy, but I still think education 2 kids privately is so much money! I was wondering how most families do it?!

I have two boys. We are just about to send DS1 to an independent school.Our DS2 has severe SEN so he will stay at his state special school (so although its heartbreaking in so many ways at least we won't have to find two sets of school fees). We have saved (DH and I are both teachers - I am part time) for the last three years and have about 2 and a half years of fees saved so we are hoping that during the time the money saved is whittling down I will have saved enough for another year. We will then remortgage for the remainder fees fot eh last 3 years (so about 50 grand eeeeek!)

We have a fair bit equity in the house and never go on holidays (DS2s autism puts the kybosh on that) and we have 2 crappy cars which will have to hold out.

Our total priority is the education of DS1 and that he enjoys secondary school. We eat value food and live like students! (without the boozing!) But hey ho thats the choice you make eh...

Ah, so when you went on and on about the sort of education I had (a shitty comprehensive now in special measures where I was bullied throughout if you want to know) you are 'illustrations' but when I say that there are SOME people who could afford private school but choose not to then I am making 'assumptions'???

"If that SAHM or SAHD even part-time on the minimum wage went back to work she or he could make enough money for school fees."

Just from a maths point of view... the figures of between about 10k and 20k have been been bandied about the thread as one years' fees for one child. Think the minimum wage would need to have gone up quite a lot since I last looked for that sum to add up.

Yep - that point is rubbish. If as a teacher, your salary goes on two sets of school fees, then someone working either full- or part time on minimum wage would have no chance at all.

I earn £35K as a teacher, I could not afford two sets of local senior school fees even if I handed over every penny of my wage. Even if it were the "cheaper" girl's catholic school which has fees of £15K.

You could earn £7,500 on the minimum wage p/t for 25 hours a week. Depending on the school this would be enough for at least 1 set of school fees but I'm talking about scenarios where one partner stays at home by choice having given up a career where he or she is likely to be earning more than the minimum wage. I was to use starlights phrase 'illustrating' a point.

I don't know of any private schools where that would be enough for a single set of secondary school fees after (or even before) tax. And you did say minimum wage to illustrate your point.

As ever, you could make 'most' state schools as good as private schools via 5 easy steps;

1. Give Heads and Governors in state schools TOTAL powers, within the law, over their school. Numbers, admissions, exclusions, pay and conditions, the lot.

2. Create an ethos with two overiding characteristics; amibition and a love of learning.

3. Have a curriculum that encourages healthy competition in all areas, that openly rewards enterprise and endeavour.

4. Opt out of national curriculum and examination system as it stands. Instead, make typical timetable pretty indistinguishable from most private schools; including 40 minute lessons.

5. Discipline; clear, unambiguous and tough.

I'm not too bothered by class size, and I couldn't give a toss about sports halls, music centres, ski trips or A Level Greek and Latin.

Ethos, Ethos, Ethos - that's what people re-mortgage for. The sooner politicians understand this the better for all of us.

OK, minimum wage on 35 hours a week is £10,500.

So minimum wage full time or a better wage part-time.

And one child. And a really very cheap private school (around here anyway - or not round here, 'cos they charge more).

ROFL at the 'easy steps' BTW. Especially number 2. Easy?

But the point is valid.

If you can afford for one parent to stay at home then if that parent was able to go back to work even at the MINIMUM wage which it then you could afford a set of school fees.

But, as I've said there are a lot of families where a parent gives up a job long-term which pays considerably more than the minimum wage who say they couldn't afford private education. Once again, I'm not saying for a second that they should. Their money, their lives, their choice. My money, my life, my choice.

I actually quite like our creative curriculum in my state school. I don't want to do 40 minute lessons of discrete subjects. I like the way I use literacy to teach or find out about something else. I think links between subjects are very important.

Not round here you couldn't fivecandles, I have looked at senior school fees locally and that is £15K a year. Of course you may get a bursary but if we all start doing that the bursaries will run out.

I also think it is rather sad if people limit themselves to one child to achieve an edcational "ideal"

As I said before on a salary of 35K, even if I stopped paying for my pension I could not, after tax pay for 2 sets of senior school fees.

At the risk of sounding like a philosopher (or Bill Clinton), this question kind of hangs on your definition of 'rich', doesn't it?

Some people will define it as being able to buy whatever you want and not worry about the cost. Some will define it as being able to pay the rent, gas bill and the food bill without going overdrawn.

The point is laboured really isn't it? Applying as it does to a very small subset of private schools, and parents with only one child. And I'm still not sure what you are arguing. Why do you have to compare yourself with people who make other choices? That would be me I suppose. I would expect we have a similar income (I'm also a teacher). We could afford two sets of school fees, even in this neck of the woods. We don't, and won't, for ideological reasons. So you have made different choices to me. So what? We are considerably richer than my parents were, who could not have afforded to send any of us to private school, and my sister, who is a single parent on a low income and who has very little in the way of choice in her life really. And many of the parents at the school where I teach. So while I see this argument about private school parents just making different choices to other parents in order to be able to afford it all the time, I don't get it. And you've acknowledged that it isn;t a choice for loads of people. So....?

You need to get yourselves up north. Manchester Grammar fees = 9k a year and there are cheaper ones.

Looking at my 18 year old, thank god I didn't limit myself to one child to achieve educational ideal!

So nothing. Starlight questioned whether there were such people at all i.e. people who could afford private education but made other choices instead.

So, also, it's a response to the OP. That you don't have to be rich to afford private education. You can have quite a modest salary.

There are a lot of people who don't consider private education because they assume it's out of their league. I suppose I find that a bit sad if they live in an area with rubbish state schools.

Just as I consider it sad when people assume that university education or investing in a pension is out of their league (when it may not be). Obviously it's sad when it genuinely is.

The OP is about whether you have to be 'rich' to afford private education not about whether private education is ideologically or otherwise desirable.

A modest income does not pay for two sets of school fees plus the living expenses of a family of 4. A good income does. You may consider your income to be 'modest' but in fact it is significantly above average. It is indeed all about definition.

Fivecandles, we fled the north, although we did have a place for dd in an independent school and from memory the secondary fees were around £20K.

But I agree that you do not need to be rich to afford school fees but I do not think a modest income would.

Our family income if modest, we could not pay 2 sets of school fees.

I don't know what the statistics are but a large proportion of new enrolments in private schools are paid for by grandparents.

All three of my kids are privately educated, and it is paid for by my parents.

It was about choice for us, our local school was rubbish and I tried to get them into every other school in the area but competition was fierce.

My parents decided they would pay for private education rather me inheriting the money and having to pay half of it to Gordon Brown in Inheritance Tax.

90% of their classmates are from "normal" double income families where both parents work damned hard and I cant think of any mega rich kids.

I have...'always have recognized that I am truly fortunate' (for being able to send my children to private school).

I find the whole thread truly depressing as a hardworking primary teacher... we're trying our very best to educate our pupils, to value them, to help them achieve their academic and intellectual potentials, and to broaden their horizons.

Therfore, I am very sad that you see the children in my class as 'unfortunate', just because they are not receiving a private education.