Homosexuality in the Classroom.

[Darcey1]

My daughter is nine. Yesterday she came home from school and said that her teacher had told the class that she was a lesbian. The teacher is about to have one of these civil partnerships and according to my daughter told the class that girls could marry girls and boys could marry boys if they wanted to.It was according to her entirely natural. This seems like corruption to me. I don't want my daughter exposed to this kind of lifestyle.

I am very upset about this and don't know what to do. Am I over reacting? Should the school have warned us that the teacher was going to do this? Do you think I should make a complaint to the school?

I was spoiled by having so many nuns, who were by no means automatons, but shared absolutely nothing about their personal lives, not even their real names, and we only ever saw their faces, with maybe a wisp of their hair sticking out from their veils. I don't think OP would have posted about a straight teacher announcing her marriage, tbh, but I think she should. This practice has always irked me.

Lilybug, you are mixing up two parts of the debate.

The importance of accepting that homosexuality is innate, rather than a choice, is that it places it alongside things that people are discriminated against, or suffer prejudice for things which per se they should not be discriminated against for. i.e unreasonable and unfair discrimination. It is unreasonable to discriminate against someone simply for being black, or a woman, because that person is has as much right to be treated faily as everyone else. The point about homosexuality is to argue against DPs belief that it is a choice.

The point about paedophiles, or indeed pathological murderers or something else which may be innate, is that they have lost the right to be treated equally because they have done something wrong, illegal or which harms another person.

Somone who happens to choose to make their luuurve relationships with the same sex is harming no-one, and (thank goodness) these days not breaking the law. So why should they suffer discrimination and prejudice over something which they have no choice over anyway?

The nuns were sharing their personal lives with the pupils, but the parents had chosen to send their girls there and knew they would be exposed to the visual sharing of their vows and vocations, the dedication of their lives to God, and the eschewing of the trappings of everyday life. The nuns were supposed to be celibate, and parents and children knew about that rule. Whether this was true in practice, nobody ever knew. And nobody ever knew anything about their sexual orientation, whether straight or lesbian. What the girls saw the nuns doing, wearing, and bearing witness to every day from 9 to 4 was no big surprise to any of the parents. They had all signed up and paid for it.

When parents know and choose what their children are going to be exposed to, it makes a difference. All the girls in the school had parents who had chosen a private Catholic education for their daughters. The vast majority were Catholic, but there were also some Muslim and Jewish students, whose parents chose the school for reasons of their own.

The point is that the parents made the choice to have the girls taught by women who practiced extreme modesty in dress, and prayed out loud during the day. They thought this was an appropriate phenomenon for their daughters to witness. They could have sent them elsewhere -- there were both RC and C of I national schools within striking distance, but they chose the nuns.

Would like to add, while the parents were for the most part married, and I think the majority hoped their daughters would some day get married, they also knew they would never have the experience of a teacher announcing an engagement or bringing a baby to the school after a maternity leave.

And all the girls have had very different life stories from those their parents might have imagined for them. About half never married, for various different reasons. Some have married and divorced. Some are still married. Some have come out. Some have children, some don't. Most have careers. No-one joined a religious order, but some have worked for charities in impoverished areas.

As role models for young women who nearly all ended up working for a living, the nuns were just fine; despite their mysteriousness and the spiritual focus of their lives, they showed up and did a good and thorough and professional job every day.

Hi martha, just to be clear: I don't agree with some of the points you've been making, but I haven't at any point thought you were being anti-gay and I certainly didn't mean to suggest that.

I don't think teachers should share too much of their personal lives with pupils, either. I just put the bar a bit lower than you; I think it's ok to say you're getting married or civil partnered.

Do not waste your time complaining to the school; nothing will happen. The head teacher will ignore it, the governors, who only know and do what the head teacher says, will go to the head teacher for advice. Contact your local media, ie newspapers, radio stations, television news. Sounds like a dodgy state school to me.

Have only read the first few pages (lazy, I know) but one poster said that they did not announce when they got married as none of the children needed to know. When I got married I changed my name. The children needed to know what to call me and I wanted to explain why my name had changed. What if the teacher in the OP is changing her name? I see nothing wrong with the actions of the teacher. Sounds like she explained things in a sensible and cautious way. By going to the head about this, OP, you will show yourself to be homophobic, judgemental and a negative role model for your child who will grow up in a world where they have to accept that people choose to live their lives in different ways and that as long as what they are doing is legal and not harming anyone, it is perfectly acceptable.

Insider333: apart from the Daily Mail, do you really think that any other media is going to see this as a story??? Section 28 is, after all, long gone....

tigga;

of course homosexuality is about sex, what else is it about..?

if i told you i was hetrosexual you would know i have sex with men and not women.....agree..?

i know a marriage isn't all about sex, but it is an important part....

this is just going around in circles now....

think we need to sum up...

1. homosexuality is legal but doesn't mean i have to accept it as normal.

2. i don't want my primary aged children being taught about homosexuality.....i will talk to them about it when i feel they are ready....a female teacher talking about getting married to a man is acceptable as that is natural to me and my family.

3. i don't want homosexuals forced into straightness....but believe most of them could live happily straight if they wanted. you don't need sex to stay alive...and they could have sex anyway....just not with each other.

4. even if i'd wanted to be a lesbian i wouldn't have been one, i wanted to get married and have a house full of children.....that is more important to me than my own selfish sexual needs.

5. i know that one person can never satisfy your every need.....too much to ask of anyone.....

daftpunk Fri 04-Dec-09 10:29:16

3. i don't want homosexuals forced into straightness....but believe most of them could live happily straight if they wanted. you don't need sex to stay alive...and they could have sex anyway....just not with each other.

4. even if i'd wanted to be a lesbian i wouldn't have been one, i wanted to get married and have a house full of children.....that is more important to me than my own selfish sexual needs.

So if biology changed and your only chance of having children would be to have sex with another woman, would you be comfortable doing that? Because I don' think I would. And I have to accept that many homosexual women and men would feel just as uncomfortable about having sex with a member of the other gender as I would doing it with one of the same gender.

I've read back about what I said about "agreeing with" homosexulality and worry I've been misinterpreted.

In the interests of debate (from a philosophical viewpoint, if you like - or just to play devil's advocate), I said that just because something is "innate", it doesn't mean that people (either as individuals, or as society), have to "agree with" it. Hence the example of paedophilia - for some sad/evil/disturbed people, sexual attraction towards children is part of their psyche. They don't chosse to feel that way, there is no known treatment to "cure" it that I am aware of - yet few people would "agree with" it.

That is not to say that homosexuality (or heterosexuality, for that matter) is equivalent to paedophilia. But it does mean (to me) that the argument that you can't "disagree" with homosexuality because people don't choose to feel that way doesn't really stand up.

Having said all that, I think "agree with" and "disagree with" is a strange way of looking at sexuality. One can morally approve or disapprove with the expression of homosexual desires, but it isn't a matter to be "agreed with" in the way that one can agree (or not) with something like civil patnerships, say. So I totally get the point about saying that "not agreeing with" homosexuality is like "not agreeing with" people being black, or the sea tasting salty. Some things just are.

Daftpunk, if you're still reading, I would just tell you not to worry. Your son isn't going to "turn gay" just because he hears about same-sex relationships. After all, you know about them, and you're not gay, are you? My dd is the same age as your son, and came home from school a few weeks ago asking whether it was possible for two girls or two boys to marry - I think children had been talking about it in the playground. Some children thought they could, some thought they didn't. When I told her that they could, she was actually quite relieved - she's of an age where she sees boys as silly, annoying creatures. Children accept these things very easily - especially if you can talk about things in an open and natural way. I do understand your desire to try to "protect" your son and keep his childish innocence - but on the scale of disturbing things about the world your sone is going to find out eventually, I don't really think same-sex relationships are there at all.

LOL Insider - re 'go to the press' and 'dodgy state school' - top trolling, not!

Daftpunk...

Thanks for your good wishes.

I think it's a very good thing that your children aren't in the same class as my DD, because I hate to think what you'd say to them if they asked you how she could have 2 mums.

Lots of lesbian couples have "houses full of children" nowadays. Whether from previous straight relationships, through donation or through arrangements with gay male friends.

"most of them could live happily straight if they wanted"???? Does that mean conversely that most straight people could live "happily gay" if they wanted?
There are plenty of gay people who try to "live straight". Some of them probably succeed, happily or not. Most of them become thoroughly unhappy. Not to mention their poor partners.

"a female teacher talking about getting married to a man is acceptable as that is natural to me and my family."

So what about children of homosexual couples? That is natural to them and their families? Why shouldn't they get to hear about female teachers marry women etc?

And... we ARE normal.

Yes we have sex - when we have the energy - but we also cook roasts on Sunday, oversee homework & bedroom-tidying, arrange playdates, dole out pocket money, plan meals, argue about finances, vacuum, go to the supermarket... does all that sound familiar Daftpunk? Does it sound anything like you & your family, & everyone else's family too?

cory;

if the only way i could have a baby was by having sex with a woman, i would have sex with her.

scarlet/Rafi

i wouldn't speak negatively about homosexuality to my 9 yr old....i just wouldn't talk about it at all, i admit i have some "issues" with homosexuality, but i have never, and would never, pass these onto my children.

Rafi, if your dd was in my ds class, you would both be as welcome in my home as anyone else, ...the conversations i have on here are between adults, i would never have these conversations with my 9 yr old.....i wouldn't bring your personal life into any conversation....but if we got talking privately and you asked me how i felt, i would tell you.....if we carried on being friends would be up to you.

Noun

Singular
bigot

Plural
bigots

bigot (plural bigots)

1. one who is obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices
2. one who is strongly partial to one's own group, religion, race, or politics and is intolerant of those who differ.

3. i don't want homosexuals forced into straightness....but believe most of them could live happily straight if they wanted. you don't need sex to stay alive...and they could have sex anyway....just not with each other.

4. even if i'd wanted to be a lesbian i wouldn't have been one, i wanted to get married and have a house full of children.....that is more important to me than my own selfish sexual needs.

.............
I guess the idea that you can just choose one or the other and it really makes little difference, because having children is all that matters to you, and the idea that sexual needs are selfish are what grabbed me here. None of my business you don't have to answer but I wonder if your' DH is equally ambivalent about this aspect of your relationship. Does he see himself as a sperm donor? You can tell me to mind my own business...

Again, gay men are not good marriage partners for straight women. It's an arrangement guaranteed to lead to deep unhappiness for all.

mathx;

i would never say that to you, i've really enjoyed reading your posts on here...

re; dh

i think he sees himself as alot more than that...i certainly do..! ha ha

if children wern't that important to me and sex with women was....maybe i could go with it...y'know, become a social worker and go and live in Haringey (a very lefty area of London)....but children are important so i'd want as normal an upbringing for them as possible...you know, a mum and a dad....makes life easier.

life is hard enough without extra pressures.

I've got nothing against gay people, indeed I have a lot of gay friends.

But primary schools are not the place to confuse children with arrangements that, as hard as it may be for many "hard line militant" gay people to accept, not conventional.

now why doesn't that surprise me...?

you lot all live there...!

right, i'm outta here...RL needs me.

catch up with you next week LG..