How do we feel that private school kids fill Russell Group Unis?.... Controversial alert.

[faraday]

Yet I am increasingly finding that most of the people I know who have chosen private have done so because their DC just couldn't cope either socially or keep up academically in the local state schools (or a mixture of both!)- so they're individually hand-held, spoon-fed and tutored in the private sector- then emerge ready to grab those limited places from perhaps more clever but marginally less 'graded up' state school kids?

There is so much nonsense being spouted on this thread.

State school pupil applications do not go to the top of the pile. The applications that go to the top of the pile are the ones with the best actual and predicted grades, the best personal statements, and the ones who make personal contact with the admissions tutors.

Special access arrangements only kick in for a very small % of applicants - those from schools who have little tradition of sending pupils to university and from families who have no university tradition.

There are many rumours that some universities (eg Bristol and Durham) actively discriminate against independent school applicants but there really isn't any evidence to back this up.

That is what I thought scienceteacher and it all seems quite friendly- my DS made lots of good friends from both state and private schools and I have no idea which are which.

anyone have an idea how the number of kids in academically selective private schools compares to the number of kids in state grammars?

As someone who does admissions in a Russell Group University I'd say you are wrong. When you process the applications you pay no attention whatsoever to the school, just results, references, statements ....

Hundreds of these to process and assess without the added complication of trying to figure out the social class of the applicant.

If anything, universities are falling over themselves to get more state educated students (and not just from the best state schools) because of widening access programmes.

If Bristol is biased, it is against private schools.

I went to a russell group uni from a state school, and even worse a state school from a rough northern time. I can remember feeling like a total fish out of water in my Oxford interview which was one of my reasons for rejecting Oxford. I accepted a place elsewhere thinking I would fit in there but was very wrong. I can only think of one other person on my course who went to a state school and I was certainly the only working class student. Other courses were not as heavily dominated by public private educated students.

I was so ill prepared, I had no Greek, latin or hebrew, my german and french only allowed me to order a burger. I spent my first year catching up with everyone else. I did not have a clue how to write an essay.

I can remember in my first theology lecture the tutor wrote lots of latin on the board, I had to play the class dunce and put my hand up and say I did not understand. He then did the same with Biblical Greek, again thick northern kid puts her hand up only for him to start reading a text in German. My tutor told me that while I may have been very clever with lots of raw potental I was ill educated and would have to work twice as hard as everyone else. I know all of this knocked my confidence and to this day I am aware that I am the working class kid from a rough state school often punching above her weight.

These memories motivated me when I briefly relented over sending dd to a private school and they very much have shaped the way I teach in the state sector now.

sorry rough northern town,

Yes, independent power to raise fees would lead to a formation of a kind of UK Ivy League, and would indeed make it harder for children from poorer backgrounds to access the better universities. Bit of a worry, that.

An article here suggests that some universities do have a bias against independently educated children.

I'd never even heard about Russell Group until my SIL was going on about how her dd's (private) school had links with the Russell Group and were having inductions and talks about how to get in.

It turns out that I went to one (from a comprehensive) - but in my day, it was about finding the university with the course and campus/city that appealed most, getting a place and the grades and going there.

In my opinion, it is the course, teaching and social life opportunities that ought to count when choosing a university.

WRT RG universities being filled by privately educated children - I think Custardo is right. 'Twas ever so. I must admit though, in having chosen state school for our dcs, to experiencing a certain amount of schadenfreude at the possibility of the best universities having a bias against privately educated children. It is only fair really - for them in their selection process to acknowledge raw intelligence and ability.

From my experience, the majority of students at the RG uni I went to were from state schools, but you what, it didn't make a difference. Once you get to uni no one gives a shit about your A-levels or what school you went to.
I think there are many factors that need to be taken into account when selecting a university, as while my old uni was a RG and had an outstanding record for research, it's pastoral care left much to be desired and a few weeks ago some of the students were protesting about the lack of hours they spent with their tutors. Some hadn't seen a personal tutor in 2 years. I wouldn't want to be paying three grand a year to be told: "here is the library, go get your degree."

have not read the whole thread, but the op's stement is hilarious - I wonder where she gets the data from that children go to independent schools because they are not intellectually up to the local state - presume this was meant as a joke? Still, it has given me a good laugh to start the day - am off to spend the day out with a group of friends and their children (at various types of school - regular state, indie, church schools - they do all mix y'now, )

To the OP:

My DS has probably got ASD. I have chosen to send him to a private school because, yes, things would be difficult for him without a bit of hand holding.

What's your point? Do you want me to do my best for my DS or would you prefer it if such inferior beings were euthanased instead?

If your child is bright enough to get into university surely state school or private school does not matter in your eyes OP? Or is is that you really believe that all privately educated kids get preferential treatment when it comes to allocating university places? If so - I'm all-right Jack!

Riven,

They will be selecting on A-level results, personal statement, references, and any other positive contact with the applicant. It appears from your stats that the private school candidates are more qualified.

Bias would occur when they systematically choose between otherwise identical candidates, or choose students with substandard qualifications.

We all know that independent schools top the lead tables so of course they are going to be over-represented at RG universities. A bias does not need to mean that the student population exactly matches that of the student population in schools.

There are ways, Riven.

There has always been special consideration for poor examination grades as a result of, eg bereavement, parental divorce.

I missed a uni interview at York due to bereavement - they refused to make another date. I don't recall any special consideration being made for any of those things in my day. Although my day was a very long time ago

It happened in the 1980s when I was at school.

The thing that exists now for students who get low A-level grades is the ability to do a foundation or access course prior to the degree course.

'anyone have an idea how the number of kids in academically selective private schools compares to the number of kids in state grammars? '

Why are we talking about selective schools?
Masses of the cleverest DCs go through the comprehensive system or an unselective private school and get places. A lot of places don't even have selective schools in the first place! I would say that the majority from the state sector are from comprehensive schools-purely because there are far more of them. (Getting into a grammar school at 11yrs doesn't guarantee a brilliant future!)