private school - is anyone going to put their hands up and admit

[HerHonesty]

that one of the reasons why they are sending their children to private school is because they dont want DCs mixing with chavs/plebs?.

I know a woman who is a single parent on benefits who sends her ds to a highly academic independent school with fees just shy of £14k per annum - she pays £100 a year due to the bursary he receives.

So, yes, lots more people could send their children to independent schools if they took advantage of the financial assistance available.

No, not 'lots more', otherwise it would not be financially viable for these schools to exist. Perhaps a few more may be able to take advantage of these bursaries, but no-where near the numbers I imagine you're talking about. Remember that 95% of the population do not use private education, and in these economic times and given the average income in this country, 2 kids at, what 16K plus books, travel, trips etc, means that it's still out of the reach of many.

Well quite a few more. Our school says whilst being extremely over-subscribed with applicants at 11+, the bursary scheme was very under-subscribed. They wanted to advertise the scheme with the primary schools in more deprived areas but the LEA would not allow it. Which I think is a real shame as I've very often taught very, very bright 11yr olds who would most def pass and qualify for the bursary. Quite honestly such an opportunity could change their whole life. So instead the school are advertising the bursary in the local papers.

My cousin has openly admitted that she sends her DS to private school because she does not want him mixing with the local children. He is not even allowed to play with the local children.

Spokette, are the local children part of the Royal Family? If so I can understand her point of view. Mongrels, the lot of them

actually 'local children' has a strangely sinister sound to it. Arn't they the ones that the heros child goes to play with just before the voices start coming through the tv and the kitchen starts to smell of dead rabbit?

Or is that just me?

. No, she lives in North London and the area looks OK to me. A mix of all social classes.

She also thinks I'm making it up when I tell her that the state junior school that I send my boys to has both a breakfast and afterschool club as well as 14 clubs including sailing, fencing, science, gardening, hockey, tag rugby, choir, music etc, especially as it only received a Satisfactory Ofsted rating (absolute nonsense btw).

Well, it's no secret in our area, as I was just having a giggle about on another thread, that the middle classes used to do anything to avoid the local primary school and its intake from the nearby estate.

When I announced dd was going there, there were a lot of raised eyebrows, forced smiles and "Oh yes, I've heard it's great" said in unconvincing tones.

However, thanks to the credit crunch many parents suddenly had to swallow their prejudices and dd was unable to get a place even though it's literally metres from us. The borough can't come up with an alternative so she's going private. So I will never know if she'd have turned out a "chav"

Well, for the purpose of a MN experiment (not really - was already prearranged )

I took my little "bubble" girl to my very average "satisfactory" city school - very varied social mix, wide range of religions and races there, many languages spoken as well as English, etc.

Much bigger school too - DD is one of 14 in her class and only 90 in her whole primary school. My school has 30 in a class, 3 forms per year so 270 in the school (it is infants only).

She spent the morning in a y1 class (she is y2 but she stayed with me) doing Literacy and Numeracy with the children, joined in circle time, joined in learning time doign the activities, putting her hand up, etc. She went out to play morning break with the girs in my class. She actually stayed with me in the afternoon as I needed to do some admin but again went to play out, her request, at lunch time and afternoon break.

Her litte bubble did not hamper her efforts to join in, mix well and make friends on her first visit there. So, so far, nearly 3 years at private school, isn't stopping her from mixing with lots of other types of people.

spokette et al... really we need to have two separate discussions, one about London and one about the rest of the UK, actually make that North London really. around here it really is a case of wanting to avoid the people who attend the local schools (perhaps not the only reason, but one of them). many of you talk about the brilliant facilities at your dc's private school but around here most private schools (i am talking primaries) barely have a playground, they're housed in converted houses and use the local council sports centre and teh park like every other state school. i have seen "libraries" the size of my bathroom and that was at one of the most coveted and hard to get schools near here.

so (with a couple of exceptions) it really isn't the facilities which swing it. or the wraparound care, which is often non existent or nanny-friendly, rather than truly working parent friendly. of course smaller classes is a huge factor but so is the desire to avoid schools which in many cases are 90% english as a foreign language and with a fair share of challenging intakes- such as refugees etc. now some of these state schools manage to do a fantastic job despite this whereas others, put bluntly, don't- and i don't think anyone can criticise a parent who has the choice to get a different type of education for exercising that choice. we all want what;s best for our children, and act accordingly.

i think to avoid admitting this is being disingenuous.

but i also think it's very easy to criticize others and accuse people of racism or classism or whatever, when you just don;t have the same problems and dilemmas.

having said that the majority of private school parents around here have never even set foot in a state school, so i do wonder sometimes how they made their choices...

0h, i used to worry about where ds would go to school. Now he is at our local inner city school ,40% white and 60% black, and we love it and he loves it. He can join lots of clubs, french, chess, gardening, basketball, you name it, they seem to do it. Everything is free. It is also an academically rigorous school, a child who works hard will be rewarded, I am confident about that.

In his class there are probably 4/5 professional families, about 20 tipically working class families (by working class i mean parents who work as builders, cleaners, etc) and another 5 who do not work, do not take part in society, I suspect they will spend their life on the dole.

To be honest, I only personally have common ground with a couple of parents, but I have a chat with everybody because everybody is actually really nice, cares about the school, the kids, helps out at fairs, etc.

Ds has friends from a variety of backgrounds. I used to worry about whether the social aspect would work, was terrified that he would mix with the wrong people. And he has. I have had to stop him seeing a particular boy who is very aggressive and unpleasant. And this is actually a middle class boy, big house, dad's an economist, wife a lawyer. Thankfully I have discovered that the parents have him on the list for the local private school.

Ds' nicest friend and the one I like most is of African origin and the family lives in a housing association house. Ds and him have the most tender of relationships and the boy behaves extremely well. The parents came here as refugees. But finally they both found jobs.

What I am trying to say is that we have so many prejudices about people who lead different lives from ours. At the end of the day personally I want my son to be in a school which maximes his happiness, instills in him a strong sense of morality and that also maximes his intellectual and emotional potential.

And it is very important for me that he mixes with children who behave well, who are caring and respectful,don't care if they are going to become brain surgeons or binmen.

oh, god, what a ramble!

McCloud I liked your ramble . I assume you are talking about primary school and that its in london?

like the ramble too!

Beforesunrise, I'm amazed by that. I have to say the 80 odd acres was one of the reasons we opted for our school.

I know I'm going to be flamed for this but why do people bring kids up in London? Sure it's great for the adults and I know there's the museums and parks but the school situation and the traffic and the pollution. Why not move out to say, Guildford or St Albans and commute in so your kids can benefit from the schools.

Not that it's any of my business...

myredcardigan in my case it's london because of the social aspect and the multiple different choices and experiences that the city offeres on a daily bases. Growing up in a place like the ones you mention was brilliant but it lacked depth and imho 'reality'. For that, based on my personal experience, I'd rather be in london with it's flawed schools and dirt. But yes I'm basing my decision on my experience. My children will prob move to where I came from. Oh well.

yes, we are in scummy east end and i am talking primary. the happiest school ever.

what an absurd thing to say, why not move to st albans or guilford, i am sorry but personally i think they are awful and i would shoot myself and the kids if we had to move.

the schools are noooot soooo bad, most of the people who think they are bad, have not even stepped into one.

I don't live in either although grew up near Guildford. Would never bring my kids up there either. We're near Manchester now and I love it up here. Just trying to offer an alternative to those who need to commute.

Guess I'm just basing my prejudices on our friends who still live in town. I often think they stay cause it's best for them (buzz, resturants etc) One couple have 2kids in a 2bed flat with no garden and I just think, why??

But as I said,none of my business. Just musing. Happy to be told IBU.

lol, we are not here for the restaurants and the night buzz, hardly go out, but it's a good place with lots of lovely people and opportunities.

Agree with McCloud, the schools might look bad from the outside (what with all the urban grit and litter!) so its rather dificult to see what's really going on on the inside.
Takes a bit of a leap of faith to send your dc there if you don't know anyone already at the schools tho'.

Going back to the OP, my concerns about going private were all about the sort of families my dc would have to mix with. Some ghastly carpetbaggers in our neck of the woods

Don't know why I used those examples. I'd hate my DCs going up somewhere so narrow. They're ok I suppose as long as you're not black or gay or unusual in any way.

London primary schools just seem so hemmed in with hardly any green space. Also quite dirty. But of course I haven't actually visited any so am talking out my bum!

Oi! Nowt wrong with Snorbens.

(apart from the fact that no Londoners could afford to live there of course .)

It is rather ...twee though isn't it?

. We moved our poor children from devon to polluted Milan. No sign of greenery whatsoever. Yuppie !

so if you haven't actually seen them, how can you say london schools (what, all of them?!) seem dirty?