private school - is anyone going to put their hands up and admit

[HerHonesty]

that one of the reasons why they are sending their children to private school is because they dont want DCs mixing with chavs/plebs?.

As a 'working single mum' I must be a chav according to before sunrise's comment re street cred. But according to wonderingwondering I'm also posh!

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I agree with beforesunrise. With all the will in the world, you do NOT get a 'social mix' in the private sector. You cannot possibly get it when for 95%+ of the population paying for education is not an option. This isn't a criticism in particular, it is just the truth.

But in answer to the OP's question, the reply will always be 'no'. No-one will 'admit' to that on this forum and fair enough.

I'm moving mine from private school because I don't want them to mix with chavs/plebs. Go figure.

I want to send my DS (andn DDTB) to the same school my DSDs go to - which is private and renown. I am not sure I'd have chosen it otherwise (in fact, I'm almost certain I wouldn't) but the education and opportunities they receieve are second to none.

I disagree completely with the social mix comment. That will happen regardless of the school.

I grew up in a hard up area of NE England and to say the people who went to my school were limited to a fairly narrow social range is extremely true.

So, in my experience, whichever school you choose is going to provide on a limited 'snap shot' on the social catchment of the school.

Infact, I'd go to say, that many private schools now offer a broader range, because of scholarships and extra curricular acitivies than your ave. comp (certainly the one I went to where the teachers were off site faster than the bloody kids and, AFAIR, were on strike for most of my education)

APologies for the spelling in that last post!!

On here, I've seen people arguing vociferously that private schools should be abolished because they are better than state schools and "it isn't fair". So all children should face barriers to education in the name of equality. What sort of thinking is that? Why not aim to make private schools redundant, through developing outstanding achievement in state schools, eh?

I am quite happy to admit that one of the main reasons I send my DSs to a state school is so they don't mix with a load of toffs ...

there are plenty (probably even more) "chavvy" parents at my older 2 dcs private school than my other dcs state school. The main difference is that they are wealthy chavs not poor ones. Most of the people I have met who send their children to private schools haven't even considered state schools - for them it wasn't even a consideration, so I doubt they thought about class or whatever.

I also haven't seen any less of a desire to learn at the state school, but maybe that is because it is not secondary level I don't know.

For us we ended up at independent school by default as there weren't any state places available at the same school for my older 2 children when we moved here. I would make the choice at secondary level, and then my choice will be about academic achievement, facilities and class sizes, not class.

Oh, and in my school, a 'career' was a YTS or maybe have a baby, and get a council flat (top of the list when you have a baby... I'm not saying that happens now... but it did in the NE in the late 80s)

That, to me, sums up the social mix of the school I went to. There was absolutely zero desire to change anything about the status quo.

it's something I feel strongly about and, for that reason and no other, my children will have a different 9and, IMO, better) education than I had.

Mollio- my comment was meant to be ironic to duchesse's "oh we've got all social groups, even single mums!"

But Bagsforlife, my DCs would not get any more of a social mix at out local state school. Affluent, expensive catchment where a good number if not most of the parents who use the state primary could afford to go private. It's just that they choose not to.

My kids pretty much mix with the same socio-economic group they would if we walked up the road to school.

OP what a horrible stance you have taken.

Private schools have more freedom to discipline and teach a stronger syllabus. That's what we pay for. I actually find parents with your view unpleasant, and there are plenty of them. Could do with more "chav/pleb" (your quote not mine!)parents to talk to frankly. At least they can have a laugh down the pub without banging on about house prices and tennis lessons!!

May I ask why people are desperate for a 'social mix'? It sounds very noble but what practical advantages does it bring a child, and why don't you think you get it in an independent school?

I would say that the social range is fairly much the same in either sector, but you have a shift.

When my children were in their primary school, we were probably on the top of the SEC scale, but now we are all private, we are close to the bottom (not the very bottom though). There are just as many families above us now as were below us before (all measured by salary and parental education, not birthright).

Assuming independent education is a valid choice for your family, why is it better for the "social mix" to be skewed below you in terms of SEC indicators rather than above - which is pretty much the reality of those who can just afford independent.

Is there really the great English, pythonesque, need to look down on people?

Personally, I would much rather my children could experience a lifestyle to aspire to, rather than only experience complacency.

God I hate the word 'chav'!!! But assuming yopu mean the underclass ( another one I'm not keen on) or the disadvantaged, the poor or the disenfranchised, then, no that's not the reason.
I volunteer at my local school which is full of these children. Why don't I send my kids there?
For precisely the reason I've ended up volunteering there as opposed to the lazy arsed parents who won't.
For the reason that the playing fields have been sold off, the class sizes are huge, the teachers demotivated and despairing. It is fecking bedlam.
I'm lucky in that I can escape it but what about those kids? Instead of sneering at indie parents why not concenmtrate on making my local school better. those kids deserve as much as mine don't they?

Anybody who does not agree with the OP is either lying or in serious denial.

'Chavs' are certainly found in the private school system! What a bemusing post! Mine are at a local private school for a million reasons but the 'chav' issue was never a reason for me to spend 25k+ a year on school fees! After all, we come across 'chavs' all the time in the towns and cities (they are still allowed to roam freely you know!).

And as someone who was educated at a local private convent school, I can assure you that by a certain age we all were aware of and used foul language when with our friends - we just pronounced the words in a more 'well spoken' accent ;)

And just what is a 'pleb' exactly?!? What a ridiculous term! I am sure that the word 'pleb' would be more likely to be used for students in the private school system than the state!

That's bollocks seeker, really it is.

I think that there are plenty of people who choose their children's schools based on the social cache. That's more about brand marketing by the school though, and people who want to buy the best.

I went (at sixth form) to a fairly prestigious public boarding school, and I have never experienced such disruptive rude children. they were incredibly badly behaved (ignored teachers, read comics during lessons, played about with science equipment and generally avoided learning as much as possible). These were all children of parents with money (sometimes a lot of money, and mostly established money too).

Any child can cause disruption, and it is the quality of the teacher in managing it that matters.

Which ever way you look at it, in most cases it is total waste of money, all boils down the simple fact, majority of children do very well in state schools, if supported properly at home. Chav children and chavy families is horrible term to use, one I hate to use or even to hear, it is awful to label people in such way, people are ether good or bad and our children are product of that. If child is very talented in something or academically very advanced, if parents feel that child would be better taught in private specialist school then yes by all means pay for the very good school and by doing so make sure child talent is properly streamed, but if like me you have regular kids with bags of potential and not enough money to send them to private school, state school then it is. Do not be fooled thinking that private school no matter how expensive can teach your child to be that extra clever or teach good manners, if those are not natured and taught at home then it is a wast of money. Affluent, academic families produce offspring of the same calibre, regardless of type of school they send there children to, good manners, polite behavior, good language and above all respect for parents in such homes is gently enforced and child is geared towards higher education and ultimately better life.

However I do think that choosing a school where you know there will be high aspirations all round (staff, children, parents) is one of the reasons why parents from all walks of life choose academically selective schools (not necessarily, although mostly private). My brother's DSS went to the local comp, and failed abysmally compared with his younger (step)brother who squeaked into the grammar school. The sorts of friends they made were totally different, and DN is off to university whereas DSN goes from one short term badly paid job to another, has two children by different girl friends and is friendly with a group with a fair smattering of criminal convictions. He scored a few points lower on the 11 plus. If you compared the two you would say that DSN was a chav and DN was middle class. It is foolish to say that schools, aspirations and peer groups do not make a difference.

We are lucky in not having to make that choice, having moved somewhere were private schools don't really exist (our city has one Catholic private school, where the fees are low, active churchgoing compulsory and involvement and fundraising part of the school-parent contract). As a result the high school the children will go to (starting age 13) will be socially mixed (it is a big school with a wide catchment area) as everyone goes there pretty much by default. As all the high schools here get good results, it's not really an issue (which is fab as where we lived in London was going to give us some every hard choices).

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I have experienced both sides of life, so to speak, I have been brought up in a Communist country and have been given the best education for free, all my ambitions came from my home, I have been bourn into the working class family, father mechanic mother blue collar worker, but always and always me and my siblings were prompted by my parents to do better then they did, luckily we were given the opportunity by state we lived in, opportunity to play an musical instrument, ex-ell academically in everything we do. I am sorry to say, but finger needs to pointed to this government, questions by parents need to be asked, " Why are you failing our children? Regardless of class, government responsibility is to ensure that the best education is available to everyone, it is there responsibility to ensure that new generations are fully equipped for life. Home is also very important aspect of child's life, parents must support and prompt there children properly, discipline is also very important without it everything in this world wold fall apart, keep the reins short.