private school - is anyone going to put their hands up and admit

[HerHonesty]

that one of the reasons why they are sending their children to private school is because they dont want DCs mixing with chavs/plebs?.

Beforesunrise - the kids have had it drummed into them that any obvious use of Wiki will be penalised! They have to be able to define and explain "historical significance" for a start, and also demonstrate how consequences of the War of Independence are linked together and inter-related! .

I did A-level history (over 30 years ago) but have been horrified very impressed by the standards kids are expected to achieve nowadays.

I agree MrsF - my nephew is at a high-achieving (and, by the by, very socially exclusive) comprehensive and I was astonished at the English project he has been doing. I would find it difficult and he has to do it at the age of 12!!!

The work DS is given is very challenging. Top set pupils are pushed extremely hard.

There is however a lot of disruption in some classes. My DS's prime motivation to achieve well at school is to keep himself out of the lower sets where behaviour is often very poor and where the worst bullies are usually found.

Sorry, Mrsflittersnoop, but I'd actually say that was an example of poor teaching rather than a child being challenged.

Setting such a vague assignment as that with no direction is only going to confuse students.

"Why was the American war of Independence historically significant?"

Historically significant to whom? Americans, The British? Socially significant? Economically significant? It's too big a topic to cover it all in one Y7 essay.

Far better would be, 'Discuss the social and economic significance of the War of Independence on the American people.' Then give pointers to start with such as effect on trade and the economy.

Oh and there's a book you can get called something like, 'All the important bits of American history without the boring bits to put you to sleep.' That may be a more succinct starting point.

Wraparound care is supposed to be available at all schools soon I believe. If state schools had the same powers as indie schools at chucking out disruptive pupils would more people look at state schools? Or would there always be something that was better? E.g. facilities, small class sizes.

For us it was a chouce between hone education or independent schooling. We chose independent because the children thrive in a social environment and I don;t have the temperament for home ed.

The lack of SATS and the emphasis on music, drama and sport was a big deciding factor. Also the fact that ds doesn't cope well with large groups and acheivment is seen as a cool thing.

There are certainly some "characters", teahcer speak for little monkeys in ds's class but the small class sizes with the addition of a full time TA means this does not become a problem.

As for parents, well there are lots of doctors as the school is round the corner from the local hospital but also several teachers and lots of self-employed people like builders, electricians and car maintenance type people.

Dh and I were both educated at sink state schoola and achieved well despite this. We both went into the arts though and our success was dependent on our parents paying for private music lessons.

My dd has the chouce of learning instruments, joining choirs, orchestras entering local festivals etc. Things I never had at secondary school never mind primary.

Myredcardigan, you've just confirmed my suspicions about this assigment!

I may be an old gimmer, but I shouldn't be finding it so hard to help DS with this essay. And I'm a professional researcher .

It IS too vague and unspecific. The kids who phoned today have all been confused as to whether "The American Revolution" is the same as "The American War of Independence" for the purposes of this essay, for example. And so am I!

Ho hum. Back to Google.

Ellingwoman, as I said I think the disruptive thing is a secondary consideration for most parents. Most people pay for a)small class sizes and b)excellent facilities. The wraparound care is also important but not everyone's main driving force.

For me it is all about the experience. Our school have amazing facilities, not just sporting and musical but to support history, geography and art too. I like that the classes are small but not too small and that each class has a f/t TA. I like that standards are high but not exam (SATs)driven but TBH, I'm not really pushy on the academicside and don't care too much what results they come out with as long as they tried their best and most importantly enjoyed it.

Mrsflittersnoop, I teach primary but have taught Y7&Y8 history when I taught in a middle school. You just don't set such vague titles and leave them to get on with it. It's not a thesis!

seeker - just noticed in the other posts that you send your kids to a selective grammar but seem to be slagging off people who send their kids private.

Some of us do not have the privellege of nice free grammar schools so paying is the only option. If I could get if free like you I would take it and save the money.

I always get a bit fed up with these threads when some people criticise other people's choices. I would like to think that everyone tries to do the best for their children. The reasons I made my choice are reasons unique to me. Other friends have made the same or different choices for reasons particular to them. One isn't better than the other.

But Mollie - for some people it isn't just an individual issue. And therefore might criticise the choice of privately educating children. As opposed to your own individual choice. Which probably doesn't make sense, but I kow what I mean...

but but bloss - did you read my post? I didn't give a moral, or indeed any comment on your decision to remove your kids from their disruptive school. Your kids, Your choice. Tis fair enough.

You wondered if your post had been read.

I said I had read it - as I understood it, and you made the point that the disruptive element happened to come from the poorer children from the nearby council estate - they were disruptive and because of that they were spoiling your kids education (and their own by the sound of it) and you didn't want your kids in their environment.

You might not call them chavs or plebs, but by pin-pointing 'council estates' and 'poorer' you are still talking about class. Therefore QED your argument must to some extent be class-motivated?

That was all.

I think it probably comes down to whether one agrees with the principle of being able to buy a 'better' education is morally right or wrong (especially when most people can't afford it). It's the education system here thats the problem not the parents or the children.

Still wondering whatever happened to the OP "Herhonesty"?

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Ah bloss - but if you disliked a white person who was a tosser why would you say they were white if it wasn't relevant? Would you not just say they were a tosser?

You mentioned the disruptive kids were from the council estate and poor. Then you said 'you may call them chavs'. Would we? How do you know?

Why mention the 'poorer' element if it wasn't relevant?

Was it?

I read Bloss' post as if she was saying they may go together in this case but one wasn't the cause of the other.
i.e just because they were w.c doesn't mean she moved them because of this. Therefore saying it's easy to assume parents have moved their kids because the school has w.c catchment when that wasn't the problem.

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bagsforlife, I think it comes down to the fact that even if all state schools were offering an excellent standard of education people would still be against some parents choosing private for the 'frills'. It's the 'frills' that I mainly pay for because as I mentioned my local state school is outstanding.

I know that not all state schools are outstanding but if they were then what's the problem with some parents choosing to pay for extras on top. Many parents who use the state sector do this too with various hobbies and after school clubs and weekend trips and fabulous holidays. Why is the concept of paying for 'above and beyond' so hated?

As I said on the last similar thread I pay for these because I can. That in no way means that I don't see it as right that I should pay for all state schools to be of an excellent quality. I don't lack interest in state schools because I have opted out.

And as I answered to your earlier point about mixing. At our school, there's more of a racial mix and about the same social mix as they would get at the school at the bottom of the road. Not everyone lives in a mixed catchment.

Oh - I took the OP's (wherever she is!) central point as people choose private school because they don't want DCs mixing with chavs and plebs.

S/he didn't define chavs and plebs. S/he didn't mention removing kids from state to private. There are plenty of rich chavs and plebs IME.

We have all put our own slant and brought our own experiences to what was a very general and interperative statement.

But I see you have expanded your point Bloss, and included '(ugh) chavs' as playmates for your DCs, so fair enough.

MrsFlittersnoop I assume you have checked the bbc website

My students are also strongly discouraged from using wikpedia or if they do they have to cross reference with a more reputable source. We spend a lot of time practising effective research, formulating research questions etc. My top set year 7s would not find that essay challenging tbh, although we would have put the ground work in. Has he been to the library, the school library will surely have some useful information. Whenever I set an essay to my students I make sure the librarian is aware what my classes are doing so he can be prepared for them.

Schoolshistory.co.uk often has some useful information, but am not sure that there is anything on your topic.

Twinset, Would you really have set such a vague question without any pointers? I mean when I was training I remember learning never to put the word significant in an essay title unless you followed by the worlds for or to. How can a teacher expect succinct answers to such a vague question?

BTW, I don't think if worded correctly the question is too challenging for Y7. I just think it's a badly worded question.

And you know there are plenty of outstanding schools in the NW you know with interested affluent parents. We don't have to travel south to get them.

oh and I don't think schoolshistory.co.uk cover American Revolution.

BTW to your DS's friend, I do think the War of Independence and the American Revolution are the same thing for research purposes but I wouldn't use them interchangably in an essay. Just don't let them get confused with the Civil War!