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Education

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Parents to blame for problems in UK schools

299 replies

Amey · 05/04/2009 17:35

Any opinions on this article in the Observer. Mumsnet's Justine Roberts gets a name check and makes some sensible comments.

Personally, I think it tough to expect kids to be fully socialised and ready to learn at 4 years old!!

OP posts:
scienceteacher · 05/04/2009 17:38

I don't teach very little ones, but I agree that poor parenting is behind most of the bad behaviour that plagues the majority of schools in the UK.

Mumcentreplus · 05/04/2009 17:54

I love Justines comments!

quornsilk · 05/04/2009 17:58

Yay Justine - great comments.

coppertop · 05/04/2009 20:24
KingRoloEgg · 05/04/2009 20:30

Agree with scienceteacher but I don't think this is anything new. My auntie was a reception class teacher in the 1960s and 1970s and exactly the same thing was happening then.

southeastastra · 05/04/2009 20:32

maybe teachers are to blame for problems in uk schools

stillenacht · 05/04/2009 20:32

Absolutely agree

Kids are too frightened to take risks due to the society they are brought up in and that fear filters into independent learning and consequently by the age of 16 even the most able need to be spoon fed everything. Kids are not allowed to fail - instead they are always being told what they are doing well which is such a bloody copout in the education system - forever being told yes great, you could do this or that to get better results - why don't we just say "No, thats not right - let me explain it so you understand fully" etc...

stillenacht · 05/04/2009 20:33

agree with the article that is

Gorionine · 05/04/2009 20:38

Are they really parents who do not want their children to do well in school or did I just not understand the article at all?

I do agree that some parents do view school as the place their children should be educated rather than just taught and I think it is really wrong. I do not envy teachers nowadays they are expected to do much more than what is humanely possible!

HerBeatitudeLittleBella · 05/04/2009 20:49

And the Association of Teachers and Lecturers are who?

A minor teaching union of which the majority of teachers are not members?

And er, yes, if you send kids to school while they're still babies, no their motor skills and socialisation skills won't be developed enough to cram them with facts.

scienceteacher · 05/04/2009 20:51

ATL is a main union. There are three biggies and ATL is one of them.

stillenacht · 05/04/2009 20:52

i wouldn't say the ATL are a minor teaching union - they are pretty large. Many of my friends joined them as they don't have the 'activist' reputation of the NUT

stillenacht · 05/04/2009 20:53

sorry ATL IS not are

scienceteacher · 05/04/2009 20:53

I am ATL - I didn't want to bet a Nutter or a Nasty. ATL just seems more professional.

ellingwoman · 05/04/2009 20:54

Is that really true Justine? Are we supposed to spend an hour each day reading to our children?

stillenacht · 05/04/2009 20:55

I am a nutter

HerBeatitudeLittleBella · 05/04/2009 20:55

LOL who is the nasty one?

Heated · 05/04/2009 20:55

Broadly agree with the article. At dh's last school, when he had pastoral responsibility, dh phoned a parent to discuss thier son's poor behaviour and all dh got was a mouthful of abuse. The parent then phoned the head to complain dh had put the phone down on him and then came into school to "have words" i.e. square up to dh.

The differences between my and dh's schools could not be more marked. Some of mine are "over-parented" perhaps but far more at dh's school are neglected or exposed to things that would make you shudder.

But even in so-called 'average schols' there is a developing trend, a third of my ds' class have communication problems; none have ESL.

stillenacht · 05/04/2009 20:56

NASUWT i guess

HerBeatitudeLittleBella · 05/04/2009 20:56

God I don't spend an hour a day reading anything, let alone to my child

I suppose Justime means if you have more than one child. I hope.

faraday · 05/04/2009 20:57

But to be honest one does wonder how many of those 'newly freed up hours' would really be spent in quality interaction with offspring and how many down the pub, to put it crudely?

It irritates me how much of the school curriculum is given over to trying to civilise children because it evidently isn't happening at home!

Perhaps we need to examine that far eastern view that education is a 3 way process, an interaction between child, teacher and parent, not a battleground.

And to be fair I don't think it is as much about being fully socialised etc at 4- many who aren't socialised in any way, shape or form at 4 aren't at 11 either! I'd hope that many of our own more immature 4 year olds are a work in progress not left to get on with it.

Maybe there IS merit in later formal schooling- we all cite this when we speak of our (mainly male!) DCs starting reception but most of the world starts the educational process at 4, but doesn't 'formalise it' like we do quite so early. But bear in mind how many parents would groan at the loss of income if they had their DCs on their hands for more hours a day to say aged 6 instead of 4! And how much MORE 'lost' to civilisation some of those neglected DCs would be if they never encountered discipline til then!

As for:

"Parents were under tremendous pressure to do many things, she said, including earning enough money to support their families..."- well, THAT ain't new!

BUT we as an Anglo-Saxon society have shown great willingness to get paid rather than get time off from work. We haven't quite reached the eye-watering '2 weeks a year annual leave' of many Americans but oh how we heap scorn on those idle French trying to restrict the working week to 35 hours!

All this, surely, CAN contribute to our DCs being ill-disciplined and not ready for school.

Heated · 05/04/2009 20:57

their - (and please ignore any other typos)

KERALA1 · 05/04/2009 20:57

Totally disagree with southeastra that teachers are to blame. Its not all parents of course but a significant minority are crap and basically don't bother bringing up their children and expect the school to do it. Then when their child is disciplined they are furious. My family are teachers in the state sector, my father has been teaching for 40 years and has really seen a deterioration in behaviour of pupils generally. Teachers are there to impart information not bring up 30 plus kids because their parents are too inept/lazy to do so.

stillenacht · 05/04/2009 20:58

KERALA1 - i agree

southeastastra · 05/04/2009 20:59

i think they should bring back the cane though. short sharp shock to sort em out