Parents to blame for problems in UK schools

[Amey]

Any opinions on this article in the Observer. Mumsnet's Justine Roberts gets a name check and makes some sensible comments.

Personally, I think it tough to expect kids to be fully socialised and ready to learn at 4 years old!!

Feenie - spot on. My own private education looking back retrospectively was appalling - every lesson was "turn to page...". I am sending my son privately for secondary level but am paying (and i know this is all i am paying for) for smaller class sizes and parents/kids who are supportive of the school/education because they are paying so much money - i am not paying for the quality of the education/teaching as i know teachers are teachers are teachers whatever setting they are in...

I don't think you can judge the private sector on the views and values of one person!

"Dreadful regional accents"

Classic Xenia. I love having a chuckle with my morning cuppa

As long as the person teaching my DD has the relevant qualifications, is able to engage the class, actually likes their job/pupils 99% of the time I'm really not too bothered about them having some dreadful regional accent. This might be down to the fact I have a dreadful regional accent myself and sending DD to elocution lessons isn't high on my agenda.

I have a dreadful regional accent that my new Dorset pupils love to mimic. I dont think it takes away from my abilities as a teacher at all.

DS is at one of 'those' schools as well - and the teachers are a normal, down-to-earth bunch of people with a wide variety of backgrounds and accents. What they have in common, as Bloss says, is the willngness to give up eveings/weekends/life to do 'extra' stuff for the children. And yes, in exchange, they do pay 10% of the normal fees.

(BTW in my terible 'nice' school for young ladies I was taught French by a woman with a broad Yorkshire accent )

that would be 'terribly 'nice'', not terrible nice

Sorry ATL for anything derogatory I might have said about you. I have just read the ATL conference notes on their web site and it makes lots of sense to me. This Too much testing and not enough time to learn through play is ruining primary school for children - ATL for example.

Including:

'Thirty per cent of teachers and support staff working with primary and junior children think statutory education should not start until children are at least six years old'.

A primary teacher in Cornwall said: "I have taught in Finland, Lapland and Russia and have seen first-hand the way in which their seven year olds start school ready to learn. They are emotionally ready, socially able, physically content and mature enough to deal with the curriculum in school, bringing good solid life experience and a thirst for learning."

'A Kent primary teacher said: "Summer born children, especially those born in August, often lack the maturity to cope with school. They would be better off staying at pre-school for longer ..'

and

Commenting on the 117 early years indicators ......... "The parents don't understand it and most aren't interested anyway. They want their young child to enjoy school, make friends and that is of course (or should be) key to foundation stage learning."

All good stuff - I wish them well!!!

Amey
I couldn't open your link, but I agree with your post
I work with pre-schoolers and every year we have the conversation about who will cope at school and who won't
parents have such high expectations of their children
they expect them to be able to read and write before they can even hold a pencil correctly
and I hate the word "pre-school" to describe what I do, it implies that we are just a waiting room before school and the "proper" education starts
the foundations to future learning are learnt in the early years
children should arrive at school with a willingness and an eagerness to learn, not overloaded and worn out by excessive pressure to attain the unattainable, or tested and compared in tables that have no benefit to them
but I don't think all the blame for the problems in schools can be laid at the feet of the parents
they are partly to blame but our whole education system has to take most of the blame
children start formal education far too early

To the mighty boosh,

You may have misconstrued the point I was making. The point is that if a child is really misbehaving in the classroom how can a teacher exert discipline if she can't physically lay a finger on him? A friend of mine had a problem child in her class a while ago who would frequently bully other children and upset them during class. On the last occasion she mentioned (before steps were taken to expel him) whilst all the other children were trying to read he started running around hitting all the children. She said she could not pull him off or restrain him physically because of the "rules". What would you have done in that situation? I think in that situation physical restraint would have been the only way ahead so that he knew he could not behave like that in class.

I think your friend may have miscontrued the rules. Teachers have always been allowed to use reasonable restraint, to protect a child from him/ herself or to protect other chldren.

Sounds like she hasn't been given adequate training.

why is it that some people have problems interpreting rules. Of course you can use resonable restraint to prevent other children being hurt. But some people stick to the letter of the law, instead of applying commom sense. "All brains and no common sense" as my mum used to say!

You can restrain, some unions advise against doing it though.

having taught for 14 years, there has been a definate decline in behaviour. pupils have stood in front of me and phoned parents to say they've got a detention and parents said they are not to do it. of course as a teacher, you cant take phone off child as that would be attacking them so you have to watch them break yet another school rule eg using phone in school. parents also like to have labels for their children and some wont like this but i have had a parent whose child caused regular major disruption, including running round a 4 storey block instead of staying in a designated area, saying but of course he has adhd so cant behave. well as someone who ran a unit for children with emotional problems in a previous school and who has experience of adhd, this pupil who was not formally diagnosed with condition was being excused by parent. however a non teaching member of senior management also told all his teachers, that any probs/detentions needed to go through her before he was allowed to be dealt with so yes the school wasnt helping. the general decline seems to be that pupils say no to teachers faces, you cant do that, im not doing it etc. having been threatened with my windows being smashed, room set on fire, things thrown through my window while i was in there alone and the glass smashed, being told it was my fault not the pupils sort of sums up the current situation. by the way, the best support i got was from my union, ATL as mentioned above. Yes its not one of the ones that shouts from the roofs over issues but it very carefully and considerately looks at all sides of issues and gives appropriate support. luckily for me, i am in a position to be a sahm so wont be returning to the classroom. i loved my subject and the majority of kids, but having your hard work and planning ruined daily by a very small minority, often just one child, doing small but disruptive things, doesnt make me want to hurry back.

I can fully understand why many teachers would prefer to stick to the letter of the law. Preferred course of action is often to remove the whole class, leaving the out of control one behind

Pointydog - I end up doing that on an almost daily basis in my classroom.

gee whizz, fish. Doin;t know how you manage to stick at it

Pointydog - It's incredibly challenging at times, but I get such a buzz out of building relationships with both the children and their families and seeing them make progress and start to value education. I also work with an incredibly committed staff team which makes a huge difference to places where I've worked before.

You can restrain and then the child makes a claim of assault and teachers end up suspended until the case is investigated! Someone I know stood in the doorway to stop a child walking out the child tried to push past and later the parents put in a complaint.

I'm so upset that I'm afraid I won't be coherent, but I'll try. My daughter goes to a little school- she is in reception class, she is 5 years old. The nursery and reception classes are in an annex that is separate from the main school. It is a small annex, there are only 20 in nursery and 20 in reception, with 4 to 5 adults looking after them. Yet my daughter is always ill, always wet- her hair, clothes, and she has been even assaulted in the toilets by a classmate who is about half year older and about twice her size. He is also very possessive of her, won't allow her to play with other children, if she tries he will interfere. This is not normal behaviour, I have spoken to the school but the behaviour persists.

Today when she was picked up she was wet through, her sleeves all the way up to her shoulder, her ribs, and she told me that her hair has already dried- this boy has followed her in the toilet again and "combed" her hair with his fingers ("his hands were clean, mummy"), wetting her hair. Where were the adults all this time? Why were the two children allowed to go to the toilet together- I was told that the staff will keep an eye out for the two of them so they won't be left alone, especially in the toilets, where he followed her previously and pushed his way into the cubicle where she was, pulled down her pants, touched her and when she tried to call out he put his hand over her mouth! When I informed the school of this I was told that my daughter is probably lying, but she wasn't- she consistently said the same thing over time.

Now she is sleeping, she went by herself to lie down, said she has a headache- very unusual! She must have been out and about all day with wet hair. Being wet through the day is nothing unusual for her, she has been so through the winter and has been ill so much that she couldn't attend and I even got letters saying that her attendance is low and the LEA will keep an eye on her. I spoke to the headmistress many times, asked her to keep an eye on my daughter, keep her dry and well, so she could attend school, I cannot believe that the non-care she receives at school is coming back to haunt me, in addition to my daughter being ill. It is just not right! How can two women not be capable to care for less than 20 children?? I'm all alone with 30 sulky/moody/naughty teenagers (most bigger than me!) and manage to stop them from setting fire to themselves with the Bunsen burners! (I'm a science teacher in secondary school).

I'm sorry it is such a long post and I'm rambling- I'm upset. I'm too close to the problem and I think I have no perspective so any suggestions about how to handle the problem are welcome. I tried to change schools- no places. The headmistress said she'll involve social services to see if there is a problem with the boy- I haven't heard anything yet, and it's been over a months now. What shall I do next? She is a happy child, perfect in every way- but for how long? I'm afraid to take her to nursery anymore- I'm afraid that she will be hurt, or get ill again.

Apologies again for long post and thanks for reading.

I'm not surprised that you are upset. Have you exhausted all other possibilities for schools? Can you get on a waiting list?
I don't know what to suggest because the Head is basically saying there isn't a problem when there obviously is a big problem. I would log the incidents. I would see the Head again and give her a written list. If she won't protect your DD I would contact the governors. The best thing would be to remove her if at all possible.

I'm shocked the school could suggest your daughter is lying... who did you speak to?

I have never heard of a school saying that a DD is lying, even if they didn't believe her I would expect them to take it seriously and investigate.