Parents to blame for problems in UK schools

[Amey]

Any opinions on this article in the Observer. Mumsnet's Justine Roberts gets a name check and makes some sensible comments.

Personally, I think it tough to expect kids to be fully socialised and ready to learn at 4 years old!!

'cobblers children go barefoot....'?

It happens a lot katiestar! It is one reason why I don't trust the 'experts'-their DCs are often not what you would expect!

My experience, as a mum of 7 year old with autism and ADHD (and who is CONSTANTLY having battles with his teachers) is that MOST parents are good and concerned and caring, just as MOST teachers are.

I'd say the proportion of parents who don't give a shit and do the right thing is slightly higher than the proportion of teachers, as if you really hate kids, you'd go for a less stressful job.

I am probably considered quite a challenging parent, as I am happy to back up the school but they have to have done right by my son and his special needs first. I will accept and back any punishments they give, but will expect them to also be reflective about their own actions.

However, many parents refuse to back up the school and will even claim CCTV evidence is fruadulent. These are also the parents who complain when their child doesn't get any GCSEs and blames the school.

I agree that parents and schools need to work closer together though. However, IME it is very very hard to get parents of the most extremely disaffected children involved. You can write, phone, text, do home visits and they still won't/ can't get their child to come to school or be polite/civil. Any events for parents are well attended by the parents who already work well with the school. I think that most schools reach out their hands very far towards all parents and even further towards those facing challenging times. But it's about time some parents reached a hand out back.

If you have kids, you can't just abdicate all responsibility when they start school. Most parents still stay involved up to Junior school, perhaps, but then drift off.

It is very very annoying when you are trying to educate a child (in all senses, ie social skills etc., to prepare them for later life) when most teens who I teach say that school is son much stricter than home "because there are all these consequences and punishments and rules and stuff". Some genuinely have no boundaries at home and then they're screwed at school and when they start work as they won't accept anything.

Then there's the parents who let their daughters (some as young as 12) out on a Friday night and don't care what time they're back and don't have any idea that they've spent the evening drinking and taking drugs, too out-of-it to notice that the boys are taking turns on them without condoms and filming it . And the parents who equally don't seem to worry about where their sons who are doing this are. This isn't a one off. We keep hearing "well, I can't stop him going out/ drinking/ truanting" and I think it's so so sad. Parents do need support but they also need to make an effort. As do teachers. But most of the most injurious behaviour is out of school and parents need to be aware of that.

Piscesmoon, parents of my pupils probably say the same about me - surely a professional who is also a parent of a kid with problems is more likely to know what they're talking about.

Nice to see that being human and having problems makes us 'unthrustworthy'

From my experience, I agree with the teachers. At my school, it is always the same few parents who are involved in activities that will benefit all children. However, there are plenty of parents who stand around moaning but won't get of their lazy butt to do anything about it.

I work plus I have 5yo twin boys and I make time to be involved in my DTS school and actively support their teachers. I make time to read to them, play with them, feed them nutritious food and impart discipline. All this talk about parents being too busy working to pay the bills is just an excuse. If they can find time to socialise with their friends, surf the web, spend a couple of hours in front of the TV etc, then they should be able to find the time to spend with their off-spring.

Raising children is a parent's job, not the teacher.

I live in an area (in manchester)where children end up at school with really poor language and social skills.

In my local school by the time they reach reception they speak at a standard 8 months younger than the national average.

(I would add that the intake of kids that have english as a second language pretty average).

I would say that there are many causes but the ones that I notice on a daily level are down to lazy parenting,:

1. No talking:

• tv on (before and after school, )

-meals in front of tv (even breakfast) -drive/walk to school not talking

• hardly reading to them

1. Rubbish discipline skills (most common I see are)

• giving threats then not carrying them out
• inconsitancy

1. Showing them inappropriate ways to behave;

• letting them watch tv which is way too old for them (soaps etc), or violent (including nkids stuff like Ben 10)
• being aggressive etc to people in front of them

-not playing with them to show them ways to play that isn't truely rubbish.

1. Not teaching them basic skills

• potty training, often left til past 3 (because it's quicker then so why bother...I've heard many times)
• not teaching them to dress (quicker to do it yourself)

oh I could go on and on but it's too depressing.

I might loosely fit the category of professional. My children are okay but they are challenging. This is because they have been through domestic abuse along with me, their mother. I'm challenging because of it!

Many professionals in Psychological services will end up there because of their life experiences and it stands to reason that their children might be a little screwed up in small ways! This does not undermine their knowledge and insight - it is almost testimony to the fact that they recognise the ways in which things can start to go wrong for families.

God, I can spout off about boundaries and behaviour with considerable knowledge and still have a middle son who pushes every button and resists every bit of discipline sat here at home!

If your dentist has 20 fillings does that make him/her a bad dentist?

At the parent's evening, the teacher said that she could tell that DH and I spent a lot of time with the boys and did things with them whereas a lot of parents do things to their children without actually being involved.

I think that succintly sums up why there are a lot of problems. Too many parents (irrespecive of social status) do not spend enough time with their off-spring doing things like speaking with them, playing with them, reading to and with them and just generally being interested in them.

I'm in two minds about this - the article certainly did read as an attack on parents, although some of the stories from teachers on this thread have made my jaw drop!

Sadly the sort of parents who will probably be made to feel guilty by this article, for not instilling in their barely 4-year old DCs the importance of sitting still when told, are probably not the parents who are really the issue here. Do a large number of parents really physically attack teachers ?!

The concern is, that the message this sort of article sends out is that all teachers think parents are failures and a waste of space, and that undermines the efforts of the parents who are making an effort, and makes them think that they might as well not bother if they are held in such contempt.

There certainly seems to be an institutional attitude still among teachers that says "okay, we are the professionals here, your opinions don't count", and that schools are NOT welcoming to parents, or keen to be working with them (whatever their skills), but rather see them as an irritation who should stick to baking cakes for the PTA.

Yep, regardless of the deeper issues here such as who is accountable and why, the people who can really effect change right here and now are the staff in schools.

What I mean is, if you are an abusive, substance misusing parent with a lack of communication skills it is going to take considerable time and support and probably generational alterations in order to change the family responses to education.

If you are a school staff member then you are in a better position to start the work of improving the communication between home and school.

Schools are widely ignorant of the harsh realities for many families - I have worked in enough schools and within education and family support services over the last 10-12 years to justify this assumption.

Too little money goes into training support staff in schools so that the whole school approach is welcoming and inclusive and up to the job of dealing with more challenging families.

If every head and every teacher and every midday supervisor could spend a day in the life of some of the most impoverished parents out there...

But forgot to answer what could be done:

it's very difficult because ime lazy parenting is becoming normalised and we all tend to look at people around us to see what is OK. (for example my kids watch more tv than the recommended 20 minutes but that feels ok because my bf's kids watch about 3 hours a day...and so it goes on)
But things that may be working a bit are:

1. parenting classes and campaigns on effective disciplining techniques (increasingly popular around here, attched to schools, my friends have been and found them useful)

2.Improving kids tv and putting soaps etc later on

1. School programmes aimed at helping parents helping their kids at school (my dss school did thies and had a whole bit about effective ways to talk to and teach your kids on a daily basis)

However, hobbgoblin, it is not just the most impoverished parents who have problem childrem. Many of those children actually come from homes whose parents have good incomes.

I am meaning impoverished in every sense, financially, emotionally...

I agree with noonki's list and her answers.

Nice one noonki for moving this onto action beyond moaning!

I need to be reminded of the need to do this v. often.

Noonki - your 1,2,3,4 list. Do you have to tick every box to be a bad/lazy parent or just one or two?
I don't think it's as black and white as that.

Parenting classes/ support groups are great but most of the ones who need to come won't/ can't (childcare problems or can't spare the time) come.

I ran parenting classes for parents of teens for a bit. The parents of OK kids came. We invited parents of our worst-behaved kids and called it parenting support sessions, but they saw it as an insult to their children and to their parenting skills and didn't want to come.

Even those who are ordered by court to attend parenting classes come with the attitude of 'why are you telling me?' or 'if teachers gave him a good slap like I do there'd be no problem'.

The one exception were two lovely but inconsistent parents who had had enough of phone calls from school and reluctantly agreed to attend after much persuasion. They gave more to and got more from the sessions than anyone.

givemesleep - there are problems getting people to attend classes but the tide is definately turning. A few years ago people used to turn on anyone suggesting parenting classes and they were viewed as something ss forced people into. But nowadays parents are requesting for places to put them on.

And often parents with the troublesome kids are willing to ask for help.

I work in housing for the council and we get loads of requests from people who are struggling.

I think that you would just have to tick one of noonki's boxes to be a poor parent.

I think that givemesleep has explained the problem with parenting classes. I went to some when my DSs were in the primary school. I was talking to one of the teachers about it and I told who was there with us and she said 'Oh, its all the supportive parents then'. This was very true-the ones that needed it would see it is a stigma. I really enjoyed them-we did some great role play-it was fun!

It will be good if you are right noonki, I think most people want to do the best for their DCs-they just don't know how.

Pisces I am sure there are weeks when I could tick one of noonki's boxes tbh, does not make me a bad parent just not a perfect one.

It does if you do it all the time twinset.
Everyone has off days-it isn't good to be perfect anyway.

Gosh see I dont think potty training 9a boy, girls are often earlier I beleive) after three is anything other than sane tbh; quicker = less stress = happy famillies

Other than that I agreemore ro less with what you have said (does yelling we're going to be laaaaate again count as talking on the school run? )

Orm- coz my MN registration change is pissin about and won't let me change back.

givemesleep did you see about DS2? , might be after some ADHD info now

'From my experience, I agree with the teachers. At my school, it is always the same few parents who are involved in activities that will benefit all children. However, there are plenty of parents who stand around moaning but won't get of their lazy butt to do anything about it.
'

Interesting: i'm the school helper Mom (was at Infants and will be at juniors now ds3 moving away for school)- yet I have the badly behaved one.