waldorf steiner

[heninthemidden]

hi,

anyone had good experience of waldorf steiner education system?

crossed posts maimune.
I'm glad you're having meetings , but so sad to hear about your dd stuck in the middle of this.
I empathise with that....a lot.

We only try to do what's best for our kids at the time...they know we love them.
Our dc's were so relieved when they didn't have to go back. They lit up again.

Whooaahh mommybuddy

I think you may need....more than a mum's forum to talk about this.....

Also Tizian after the teacher said nigger the class complained and told her it was racist she said it wasn't.

She then moved my daughter to the corner of the room.

When I said she needed to appologise to the class she was horrified and said she couldn't do it on her own !

Mommy b,

I spell out the word nigger because I want everyone to read it and hear it in all its hideousness as my daughter had to.

Do you know that before we went to this Steiner school I had never had to hear that word come out of my mouth,ever,and there I was saying it in a school meeting.

I think you must be a Steiner plant trying to discredit me,people will know ,there are a lot of very rational posts I have read that make sense,the ones that don't are from the pro Anthroposophy people,people can work things out you know.

I thought "nigga" was used amongst black comedians and rappers but then again I don't frequent Dr. Phil.

I've had Steiner plants tailing me for years, and accusing me of being one of them is one of their classic tactics.

And oh, the tales those tails could tell!

OMG !!

Tizian.how do you know the poem was used as a pronunciation exercise,I didn't say that! But you know because you have been told but Jeremy Smith or some one at the school !

Mommybuddy,how do you know I am not Black,my daughter is mixed race,I could be Black or white,you know because you have been told that the Mum,(me) is white and my husband is black and he works full time so couldn't be posting on here in the day.

I guess thecaty who knows Mr Smith has been in touch with you all.

The meeting will be very interesting !

Maimuna- Hi, I have been on this thread for a while but on holiday for a few days, I just want to warn you, as others have done, and had to with me, that the Steiner world is small, I have had reasons to suspect that the school I am complaining about are on here in some way, and/or, know that this Manatee person is talking about a case at their 'school' and are therefore using what I say here to inform their actions. At first I was outraged and determined to be able to talk freely about this, and set up a facebook group, I closed it within a couple of days though after certain things made me reconsider my decision to identify myself with my rl name as a complainent against a SWS and not only that, but someone who is keen to enlighten others to the truths.

I hope you are ok, it is so hard, frustrating and upsetting to have to try and ram home serious points like racism (and in my case, child sexual abuse) to people who just do not wnat to hear, or care to act, as they refer to anthroposophy to guide everything.

To the point a few pages back about trustees, the school we were at has trustees that are all parents, or ex parents bar one, who is a teacher! In their defense they have voiced a desire to get trustees in from a broader field, but this is not happening, and is obviously only ever going to contribute to the one sidedness off any complaints against a SWS.

This kind of stuff goes on and on in anthroposophical circles, about plants, moles, sleepers, agents and double agents. It all dates back to the Cold War, when the CIA and the Pentagon were heavily recruiting anthroposophists for occult espionage against the Soviets: Remote viewing and all that stuff. And perhaps they succeeded in obtaining clandestine contracts with the Anthroposophical Society; there were also rumors that Howard Hughes lost his marbles because of too much Steiner-reading, and everybody knows what happened to Marilyn Monroe, who was dabbling deeply in anthroposophical studies.

The federal agencies also recruited Freemasons, Mormons, Quabbalists and other occultists for this type of espionage, but the peculiar thing about anthroposophists is that they believe the sixth post-Atlantean cultural epoch, which is supposed to begin in the fourth or fifth millennium or something, will arise out of Russia, the very cradle of the first future master race. So for this reason, many Steiner-people commissioned by US intelligence to spy on the Russians, defected. Many became commies in the process, and if you talk to elderly Waldorf teachers, you'll find a lot of them are still commies, Marxist-Leninists, but Communism was not the reason for those anthroposophical defections. It was the vision of the future sixth epoch and a Russian master race.

Other anthroposophists remained loyal to the West, very loyal indeed, because Rudolf Steiner had time and time again emphasized the importantce of Western Occultism and its predominance over all other types of occultism, so there were also many anthroposophical psychic spies who refused to defect, and on both sides of the Iron Curtain these anthro-spies would turn each other in.

We are no longer in the Cold War, but with this history in mind, one should be aware that many Waldorf teachers and other anthroposophists, including lots of Waldorf parents and Waldorf students too, are still living cloak-and-dagger paranoia style, dispatching plants and moles and sleepers into various organizations and environments.

So maimuna's concerns about the pro Anthroposophy people planting shadows in various disguises are legitimate & kinda creepy too, which is why I stay anonymous. But all MANATEEequineOHARA needs to do is pull her kids out of that school because then she can complain all she wants, she can even haunt them Stephen King style to see how they like what they're trying to put us through without succeeding.

My kids are out, and have been since January when I realised how fucked up it all was. I do not want them to use anything I have been saying on the internet against them, to affect the complaint in any way.

I'm sure I will get accused of being a double agent with the following post but:

I have just picked up an email from the chairperson, re my complaint, to let me know my deposit will be returned, and I am owed an apology, and that a specific apology will be sought.

I am so damn grateful, I know the tone of this thread is generally that Steiner Schools are a mismanaged educational branch of a crazy cult, but I personally have had my faith somewhat restored in their ability to do the right thing.

(NOT that I am ignoring the scary experiences voiced here, but perhaps advocating the 'good management is the way to go' stance)

Core wrote:
"The thing that has impressed me most about my dcs state school is the way they have taught the children to empathise with each other, to look out for each other, not only not to engage in bullying themselves but also to be prepared to look out for signs of others being bullied and being prepared to intervene.

This has been a far more important part of their education than any exam coaching that may have been going on."
This is great, Core.
At our school this is very much part of the furniture and its the same in the ten Uk SWS I have visited.

Mommybody:
do you dream this stuff up at night.
After a few bottles...?

Tizian, when you say maimuna was wrong in saying the book was an anthology of Steiner poems, they may not have written by Steiner, but the author- Alfred Baur- uses a method of curative speech training called chirophonetics.
It's in another of his books here,
Healing Sounds:Fundamentals of Chirophonestics

Here is the blurb form the Steiner college press about it

"Chirophonetics is a therapy which is based on the fundamental understanding of the human being developed by Rudolf Steiner. Therefore it is self-evident that the ?School of Chirophonetics? can only train therapists who have already acquired the necessary foundation"

I wonder what that "necessary foundation" is?

Hi Northern,I said the book was from an anthology of childrens poems because in the notes I have (from the first meeting)from the school the class teacher says
,
"I suggested to German teacher that it was a mistake that she had not read the poem first and she said it probably was,but justified not reading it because she had chosen a poem for SOUNDS rather than its contents and because it was from a Waldorf childrens Anthology of poems. German teacher suggested she have a word with(daughter)to explain this to her.I thought that might be a good idea."

So she hadn't read it but chose it for its sounds ?

And our daughter is supposed to feel comfort in the fact it is a book that is approved by her school.

When our daughter said that nigger is a racist word the German teacher said "No it's not"

The German teacher is beyond help I don't want direct action against her so I would not put her name here.

Our problem is Our Steiner school think it is ok to employ a teacher who in 2009 thinks nigger is not a racist word.

Hi Mumsnet readers,

Just for the record, the "basement children" thing is a joke. It's a long running hoax, written by an anthroposophist. Not exactly a funny joke, if your children have been harmed in a Steiner school, and I doubt the anthroposophcal powers-that-be appreciate his humor. But it's not for real. I haven't read all of this closely enough to be sure, but there seem to be anthroposophists participating in this thread just to have fun laughing at the mothers here.

Diana

Basement children??? Why do I not understand where that comes into this!?

Hi Manatee, I don't think you are a double agent but I do think that your getting a reasonble, sane, compassionate and civilized response from these folks is probably a result of threads just like this one. This is exactly the purpose of what the critics of Waldorf/Steiner do. I am really glad to hear that a Steiner school "did the right thing" - just goes to show it is possible for them to do the right thing when they hear loud and clear that this sort of thing will be publicized and will not make them look good and that the only way to fix it is to own the problem and respond to the family in a civilized fashion.

I'm sorry to read the Steiner horror stories here, and wish all the mums the best in getting your children re-settled somewhere safe and happy.

Diana

Hi Manatee, see "Mommybody's" post from yesterday, about "basement files" claiming that children were kept in the basement of the Goetheanum. Like I say, it's just a stupid joke. The anthroposophist who wrote it has nobody to blame but himself if it starts getting taken literally and reposted other places. He's an idiot, basically. He thinks all this is very funny.

Please re-read "Mommybuddy's" posts with a somewhat skeptical eye, and listening to the tone. What kind of person would believe that if there were "underground chambers" where "human and animal sacrifices" may be performed, that really the Waldorf people today are harmless? Or that it's ok as long as your teacher isn't like Josef Mengele? This is a stunt, designed to make critics of Steiner/Waldorf education look ridiculous, and it's pathetic and cynical. We (their critics) do not accuse them of performing animal or human sacrifices or "weird rituals." We accuse them of running rather shoddy schools, often poorly managed and delivering substandard academics, mainly because they adhere to the teachings of a silly guru, often to the detriment of their students, and often causing families a lot of grief trying to deal with the effects of this fucked up system on their children.

Ah I just took Mommybuddy to be a person with mental health issues who is not to be taken seriously anyway.

Absolutely Diana it's a way of distracting attention from how silly the guru was by trying to make his critics look like idiots. Or by sending readers away bewildered.

Steiner Waldorf schools are apart from anything else an industry out of which some people make a (not very good it's true) living. Threads like this subvert the Brand. No wonder its adherents resort to all sorts of stunts to silence criticism and ridicule critics.

Hi Manatee - I hadn't read the thread for a bit and initially thought the same! But I agree with Diana, it's worse than that. How insulting and horrible it must be for other mothers reading here.

As someone who tends to take things rather literally anyway I AM bewildered at how someone can actively set out to undermine people's negative experiences by making up insane OTT stories.

That is just horrible.

I didn't make up any stories, they were sourced. I haven't seen anything about those basements in the media, so they may be rumors and gossip, but you know what they say, no smoke without fire.

I think it is the 'use' of the word @nigger@ than can be racist in a rasist context.
I do not believe a word 'in itsself' can be racist but perhaps the person or people using it in a context. I think.