waldorf steiner

[heninthemidden]

hi,

anyone had good experience of waldorf steiner education system?

I agree with Maria's assessments of the management issues. There are no problems per se with parents being on a Trustee board. But when that Trustee board, which is supposed to be setting and guiding the broad strategy and vision, is also 'running' the school in the sense that parents are volunteering to serve as administrators and write policy, there is a serious problem. I think this operating model is often considered as a viable alternative to increasing tuitions in order to pay for professional school administrators/headmasters, but it is a patently unsound and even dangerous practice.

Bingo Zazizoma. This is exactly what was happening at the school I was at.

Maria - I've had the same experience and heard it repeated countless times. The willing and able people could sometimes feel so dispirited.

There was a sense in the last Steiner school we were part of that something like chaos was never far away. Teachers leaving for no clear reason, sometimes in the middle of a term. Miserable, bewildered parents. Children who felt openly disliked and thwarted. No exaggeration.

It wasn't until our children were in other schools that I realized it really didn't have to be so difficult.

northern, maria, thanks for replying to my questions on fee-paying.

It seems to me that if a typical SW school charges between £1,000 to £4,000 per term (got that from the Hereford Academy article northern linked to), that is no small beer. Any parent paying that sum would expect a professionally-run school as a matter of course.

I realise how much I have taken for granted in my dd's independent school. I was thinking about the board of trustees, what they did, were they elected and how the school ticked. Frankly, I don't really know and you know what, why should I? If my dd was not learning, I would expect the teacher to inform me and we would work out strategies together. If my dd was being bullied, I would raise this with the teacher, failing which the headmistress, and I expect to be taken seriously at every stage.

I don't have to get involved in the board of governors as a parent to ensure my dd got the education we were paying for.

As far as I know, the school has a headmistress with an impressive CV, there is a head of juniors, head of seniors, so many heads that write to me I could not possibly name them all. Save that I am sure they are running the show. That is what my fees pay for.

As for Hereford Steiner, if it really does happen (I wonder what the government was thinking), I would be interested to see whether public funding results in a more professionally managed and accountable Steiner. I would be gobsmacked if taxpayers money was used to fund a school with gorgeous curvy buildings but run by the equivalent of the PTA.

Blueshoes

I assume that big Steiner schools and Hereford are properly run. The problem is that there are a myriad of smaller schools that are not so well run.

I guess what contributors on this thread are trying to unpick is whether this chaos is endemic to all Steiner schools or whether it only goes on in some of the smaller schools and also why doesn't anyone do anything about these problems? Who is ultimately accountable?

Your post picks up on a culture in Steiner schools where parents facilitate the school they want for their children. This thread makes it very clear how problematic this can be.

Pretty sure the Steiner Hereford Academy happened already, blueshoes.

blueshoes - the funding for the Hereford Steiner school is via Academy funding i.e the public money is from central Government: the school manages somehow to by-pass the Local Authority, planning constraints and the vocal opposition of its neighbours.

Academy funded schools have been criticized elsewhere in the country. Here is the wiki article which is as accurate as anything on wiki, the veracity of which has been debated on this thread. It's an interesting starting point even so.

It may not be run by the PTA but that won't make it a good or a necessary or a desirable school.

The Steiner Academy Herefordis listed here as open.

Looking at the Hereford site I'm struck immediately by sanctimonious high-minded woo. 'Experience childhood fully.' Please: deconstruct.

wilderduck, can you say in what way the Steiner Academy Hereford by-passes the Local Authority, planning constraints, and the vocal opposition of it's neighbors?

Would you care to review the thread? Time is short and life too precious for these games, Isenhart.

No game intended-what's the scoop-you imply illicit activity by a school-what is the nature of the opposition, planning constraints, and local authority that you claim the Steiner Academy Hereford by-passes?

Thanks for clarifying about the status of Hereford.

On Hereford Steiner Academy by-passing local authority objections via central funding etc, that is all set out in the Guardian article Northern linked to: Hereford Steiner school Academy - here it is again

I did not read many articles, but I did read that one.

Northern you wrote:
"They give infinite care and attention to these children to help them catch up, using valuble time and resources."
This applies to the school I work at!
Also you have your ways with words. I did never imply state schools are inferior nor that Steiner schools are superior, your words not mine Northern, putting words into my mouth.. please stop this!
There is however things going wrong in states schools Or don't you read the papers or watch the news?
I can also see the increadible work many state school teacher put in.
But half my class are from state school, arrived emotionally under developped and now the parents tell me how much more rounded their children are just after one year in some cases.
Wilderduck: Regarding ISC, watch this space ther will be news soon!

Not illicit: Academy funding is a mechanism for Government to by-pass established Local Authority procedure.

Blueshoes,
I know for a fact that Hereford are struggling with the local Authority and locals and many other issues, this is first hand from their principal!

So the planning permission the Steiner Academy Hereford received was provided by the Government rather than the county?

thecaty
you said
"now wants her child that was pushed about in state school to have the best education she could wish for her child."

imo that is making Steiner schools out to be superior, and denegrating state schools.

With the exception of Hereford, Steiner schools are private; even if they were "the best education (one) could wish for (one's) child", only a very small percentage of the population could afford it.

And I'm sure that many people struggle to pay the fees as it is.

At the school we were, they asked for more money over and above what we payed.

To take up Maria's points, our school was small and badly managed; there was obvious infighting and splits and tension among staff, which even the children commented on.

For some time it was obvious one teacher was extremely stressed, and was not being given the support it was obvious she needed; although the class was in disarray, I did feel tremendous sympathy for her, and tried to support her. It looked as if there was a mass turn against her, in quite a nasty way.

She did behave strangely and unpredicatably; my dc was deeply affected, as were the whole class; their reaction was palpable; and they were so young and vulnerable, and looked in a shocked state some of the time...

But it didn't appear she was being supported. I wonder in hindsight, whether "anthroposophically" her sort of breaking down was karmic as far as they were concerned; even though children were being so affected by it, she was left to flounder.

In the end, she resigned; imo she was given no option.

This would not have been able to happen at a properly moinitored school.

It was unprofessional at best, dangerous at worst.

Apparently she was going to prosecute for unfair dismissal... but... she got a job at another Steiner school. [hmn]

blueshoes- form the artlicle isenhart linked to- it appears if I understood it properly, the Hereford school didn't get the new building they wanted, (but got academy status)
The Steiner Waldorf Schools Fellowship sponsor them.
"The Steiner Waldorf Schools Fellowship is a member organisation for all Steiner schools and independent Steiner Early years setttings in the UK and Ireland. Steiner schools are known for their alternative approach to education, which focuses on the holistic development of the child.www.teachers.org.uk/resources/word/Briefing-on-Academies-open08.doc - The Steiner School Fellowship is sponsoring the Steiner Academy in Hereford."- apparently from two individual donors who aren't named.
from Finacial Times

The government then meets the rest of the costs as far as I know.

"William Braid, chair of governors at Hereford Waldorf school, said: "We hope the academy will encourage the outside world to take more notice of the underlying Steiner principles."

just made me smile...like clairvoyance, Atlantis, reincarnation, karma, medieveal temperaments race and skin colour beliefs.....and gnomes

Isenhart - to understand the UK's labyrinthine planning laws, the role of local government in designating an area of great landscape value and the powers held by central government to overrule same and build on it anyway, why not have a chat to this man? He has a bit more time on his hands these days. You could even join him on twitter. Just don't make him cross...

TheCaty - Northernrefugee does have her ways with words but she isn't twisting or distorting anything you've written on this thread. You may not say so directly but you repeatedly imply that Steiner schools are superior to state schools, where children are: 'emotionally under-developed' (explain?) or by suggesting that after Steiner they're 'more rounded'. Certainly that's not going to be in any intellectual sense.

I've seen parents doing an exemplary job of running a school: setting it up, creating systems that work... I don't think it's necessarily a bad thing if parents take some responsibilities (and they were elected, as school governors are at my dcs present schools)

But there will be confusion, odd situations, unhappy parents however competent administrators are because the ethos at the heart of Steiner education is irredeemably flawed.

Northern - It's extraordinary how little research journalists do. I'm waiting for the article that calls Rudolf Steiner a world-renowned trapeze artist and expert on the nose-flute. Or any other skills the man hid from us in his life-time.

Isenhart - to understand the UK's labyrinthine planning laws, the role of local government in designating an area of great landscape value and the powers held by central government to overrule same and build on it anyway, why not have a chat to this man? He has a bit more time on his hands these days. You could even join him on twitter. Just don't make him cross...

wilderduck-I have no interest in understanding your labyrinthine planning laws but rather what has actually transpired with regard to such in the case of the Steiner Academy Hereford. I understand eminent domain, etc.

Did what you provide as an example here-the powers held by central government to overrule local government's designation of an area for building purposes actually happen in the case of the Steiner Academy Hereford, as you seem to imply?

Isenhart - to understand the UK's labyrinthine planning laws, the role of local government in designating an area of great landscape value and the powers held by central government to overrule same and build on it anyway, why not have a chat to this man? He has a bit more time on his hands these days. You could even join him on twitter. Just don't make him cross...

wilderduck-I have no interest in understanding your labyrinthine planning laws but rather what has actually transpired with regard to such in the case of the Steiner Academy Hereford. I understand eminent domain, etc.

Did what you provide as an example here-the powers held by central government to overrule local government's designation of an area for building purposes actually happen in the case of the Steiner Academy Hereford, as you seem to imply?

If you have no interest in the UK Isenhart, why are you here? You said earlier on this thread that you have no interest in UK Steiner schools. Or us.

Academy funding in the UK is a mechanism for central government to by-pass local authority procedure.

Did what you have implied with regard to bypassing planning constraints, and overriding a great landscape value designation actually happen in the case of The Steiner Academy Hereford or not?