waldorf steiner

[heninthemidden]

hi,

anyone had good experience of waldorf steiner education system?

Northern,
I feel it is only natural that if you make these statements/allegations that you provide some proof.
Or else you do it to damage the reputation of Steiner schools.
I am here to say that there are lots of Steiner schools that are far from the picture that is being built up here by all you mostly seasoned posters.
If those schools you talk about are in trouble and you can see what needs doing then I think it would be gallant to tell them and in a way that does not make them defensive.
If both sides feel attack is the best defence, then we get a stalemate and you can carry on with your posts and all dissapointed families can share their grief.
Not once have you (any of you)said Oh actually there is something I could have done to improove the situation before you withdrew.
If all those things (digger, bullying etc.) are happening in a school, the amount of neglect would be such that you would have to call the police ( was this done? or social services? or did you just think the children left have to put up with this terrible situation? It just does not make sense!!!
If what you describe is true, and I am not saying it isn't, then I would have gone up the wall to protect the children that are left.
I don't think years of sending these samy posts is helping those vurnable children that your family has left behind at the Steiner school.

You have published lots of lists of books before so stop asking me please.

There are shortfalls in Steiner schools but it is things like lack of support for teachers and parents. And yes the information a new family gets is very important both for the school and the new parents.
I think if we improoved on that there would be a lot less of these posts here and else where.
Got to cook now and prepare for tomorrows lessons.

Maimuna, I am absolutely appalled by the words of your daughters teacher.

She is a very brave young woman, before she decides to fight this I would recommend studying the relationship between racism and anthropsopophy.

A list of articles and others can be found here when you scroll down to racism

Tizian,did you not read what I wrote,my daughters German teacher read from a Steiner book of poems

"THE BOY GOT SO MUCH CHOCOLATE ON HIS FACE HE LOOKED LIKE A NIGGER'

Then a boy who told her that all Black people are niggers was not punished,even though a girl who said her" arse was aching "after PE got 50 lines and a boy who told his tacher to F ... off was sent straight home!!

Thecaty,I can give you proof ,would you like the name off the school and the teacher involved?I am fine to do that,if it was dealt with I would not feel the need to post on here!

maimuna - please CAT me or Barking with the details, don't post them on a public forum. There are some unpleasant people here who may not be useful to you! x

theCaty - I can assure you I'm not a 'seasoned poster'. I didn't part on bad terms with my dcs last Steiner school - we left because the teacher was incompetent and the system itself disappointing. It is what I observed happening to other children, then and later that confirmed my gut feelings about anthroposophy and its place at the heart of ALL Steiner schools. By reading accounts by other mothers like Northern and by researching for myself I began to understand comments and events that had been disturbing but inexplicable at the time. It made sense.

Now when I hear the distress of parents still in these schools I don't think 'how can we improve Steiner schools?' I think 'Why do we need Steiner schools?'

Because I know that the distress stems from the ethos that underpins Steiner education. Simple.

wilderduck,sorry,what is CAT, I tried to message you and I couldn't,I've never used one of these places before ,help,and thanks for the warning,x

Look under 'FAQs' at the top of the page, maimuna. Sadly I can't give you my email!

CAT stands for 'contact another talker'.
You may not want to, but I'm happy to help if I can.
x

Wilderduck,I just gave Barking the info,it says I can't send you a message,if you and Barking speak she can give you the information.M.

Hi maimuna

It's almost beyond belief that that happened.

Your daughter must be some girl to want to stay and change things, that's all...

I hope something can be done, and that the school will be forced to listen.

Unfortunately, as Steiner schools are private, I don't think offsted have a procedure.
It's farcical, but the complaints would probably have to go the the Steiner Waldorf Schools Fellowship...back to Jeremy Smith, and his sensitive ways in PR.....

What on earth was the Steiner book of poems?

thecaty, as far as I know, you could be anybody.

Who the hell do you think you are to ask me for proof?
How dare you impugn my honesty and integrity.

Some kind of anthroposophical one man jury?

You do take the biscuit here! How is one able to improve a situation which the school says doesn't exist? They were in total denial about most of their problems as far as I could see; certainly the ones which directly affected my kids.
How many times do you need to hear this?
*They Did Not Listen,
They said things were "accidents", that our daughter was winding us up...bla bla.
The strong arm tactics to deal with children in the class was repeated to us by various different children, including ours.

The digger and bridge incident (and the setting fire to a building and climbing on roofs) didn't involve my kids. Their parents accepted it as their children being "wild and free".

I have already been stalked around the net by someone who doesn't like to hear what happened at the Steiner school, and had smears and half truths posted on a website by him. Designed to scare and harrass.

And you mention damaging reputation.

Even I don't have to try very hard to do that...

On this thread alone, there have been many people with different tales to tell about Steiner schools; suspected sexual abuse, racism, bullying, parents unaware of what the schools are really about... etc etc.
It's time the schools took a long hard look at themselves and the "ethos", anthroposophy, which guides them.
It isn't working.

Thecaty-
you have gradually admitted that you are a Steiner teacher, so presumably have done the training.
Why on earth is it so difficult to say what books you read during training?
It perpetuates the idea that there's something to hide, don't you see?

Ah, works for me.

And here too.

Hi Northern,thanks for writing,its SO true what you say,the schools have a real problem seeing or admitting when something is wrong.

I have just come off the phone with the Complaints Officer,he said the teachers are happy with the outcome,I said we are not.

A boy who said to our mixed raced daughter "All Black people are niggers"had no punishment whatsoever,he was just asked to appologize.

But my daughters friend who said her"arse ached"after doing PE was promptly given 50 lines!!

A boy who told the class teacher to F... Off(wish I could say that!)was sent straight home.

But its ok for teachers and kids to say nigger,MADNESS!

I was also just told that the Educational Facilitator would phone us if he thought it necessary,I told him we need to meet him because WE know it is necessary.

There is this strange arrogance with the staff involved,

And guess who the Educational Facilitator is..

Jeremy Smith...nice!

The book was an anthologyof Steiner poems in German.

Isenhart - journalists don't always do their research. It's sad but true. That's why the internet has become so important.
The Steiner PR campaign has been good - so far.

maimuna - I'll leave Barking to contact me! I wasn't aware I had to turn on my CAT, sorry! Will turn it on. Could do with another dog anyway...

Isenhart - there's a jag waiting outside your door and an ex-deputy PM waiting to whisk you away...

I feel the system is in crisis,in my daughters class a lot of the children are questioning their teacher which he is not happy about at all.
Nearly all of them watch TV,our daughter is one of only 3 who doesn't have MSN.
They know there is a world which is different from their school one.
How long can Steiner Schools avoid having contemporary poets,my daughter would love to read out Benjamin Zephaniah for example !And writers,and allow CD's and videos instead of singing them songs so they can learn about different music styles.(What a bizarre idea !)
They havn't heard of Black History month or Amy Whinehouse,my daughter was told Rap Music is dreadful...what all of it, Gangstar,De La Soul ?The teachers need to know what the kids are into outside school and allow it in.
Our daughter is in a fantastic Street Dance Crew but we are too worried to ask if they can perform as I'm sure it wouldn't "fit".
I am off now and will let you know what happens with the next meeting,I feel so much better from hearing your thoughts(The good ones!You know who you are!)

That's a vague generality, wilderduck,you are implying that William Little with the Telegraph did not do his research with regard to the recent article on The Steiner Academy Hereford. Have you done yours yet-you have not responded to my previous question regarding your allegations of bypassing planning constraints and a landscaping designation.

maimuma

It looks as if they want to brush the incident under the carpet.

In your situation I'm not sure where I'd go next.

I strongly identify with your point about the arrogance of teachers at Steiner.
The idea that they know they are right, and we aren't prevails; that "spiritual " knowing and complacence...

I'm seeing the vision of gansta rap eurythmy very clearly

At our school, recorded music wasn't even allowed...

thecaty
a quick reply to your point about improving the situation before withdrawing- you have no idea how many times we tried to discuss and communicate in a coherent way. We had reached a point of absolute despair by the time we left.
You have no idea what we did, so don't presume.

We only found out towards the end of our time about anthroposophy in all it's glory; we were deceived about it and it's role in the school.
I have absolutely no intention whatsoever of "wanting to improve" an education based on occult truths and spiritual hokum imposed on my dcs without my knowledge.
Some of the people at the school, I personally have no truck with- I actually like them, although I think they are misguided and brain addled, I feel pity if anything, that they're caught up in this thing called anthroposophy.
But it keeps coming back to anthroposophic truths and laws which were used on our kids.

maimuna - your daughter sounds as if she's part of the 'real' world outside school, she'll be fine. I can feel a breath of her fresh air... I think it's great for teenagers to talk to each other on their computers, they can be really creative. And to dance and sing the songs they like (even if I don't) and to ask difficult questions and to make choices about their lives and their education.

My dc has taught me all these things.

If they're educated to think for themselves they'll know, as I know, that you can't believe everything you read in the papers, or are told by governments. That the word 'spiritual' is a vague, even meaningless word. That creativity and ingenuity and laughter and friendship will do just as well

maimuna-I am sorry that your daughter has been exposed to the words, arse, fuck, (I assume) and nigger.

Wilderduck, you wrote,
"If they're educated to think for themselves they'll know, as I know, that you can't believe everything you read in the papers, or are told by governments." "That creativity and ingenuity and laughter and friendship will do just as well"

This just souds like what happens in my class room daily.
I had a state school teacher in today observing and her feed back was more than humbling me.
Maimuma: I know the school you are talking about and I know some teachers there as well
And I know Jeremy Smith, a nice guy! despite of what people say.
I hope you will succeed with your plea!
But please do not generalise into 'all schools' must be like this or that.
A lot of staff at schools are under a lot stress as they are there to educate the children which as a teacher is more than a fulltime job and then on top you have many extra duties, maybe patience is needed.
but yes this teacher deserves a close look at by the sounds of it.
Northern your unwilling ness to proof your allegations is childish to use a polite word.
My otherhalf is a v successfull solisitor critical of SW education but even she must think it is out of order to post all these unproofed allegations. And unprooven they shall remain till you proof them. comprende?

isenhart-what is sad is that she hears the 1st 2 words arse and f... in and out of school. BUT it took a Steiner School to ram home the severity of the word "Nigger" - She had never ever had to deal with it----and if you feel "arse " as a word is anything on the level of "nigger" you are welcome to come to Tottenham or Walthamstow or Edmonton and try and explain yourself .Go ahead try and say "arse" and then say "nigger" and see the difference in Tottenham shopping centre.Please be my guest-do let me know when your'e going too!-You see our point as parents was that -In todays society its important for ALL children to know the consequences of saying something like that.By not doing anything the children are basically being told its ok and they may well end up in Tottenham saying exactly that-"nigger" with no reasonable knowledge as to why they will find themselves in shall we say .....an awkward situation .

Right you are maimuna-when my children come home from school and elsewhere with questions or concerns about words they've heard (or questions in general) as a parent I always look to what the learning opportunities might be. It sounds to me as if the salient learning opportunity you have identified is that some words shouldn't be used in public and you've even devised an experiment to prove your point that using these words will incur public scorn. To further drive this-what I like to call "the bad, badder, baddest words lesson" home-a parent might themselves publicly ridicule those who have used said offensive words.

theCaty - you missed out that troubling word 'spiritual'.

Maimuna isn't generalising. She's talking overwhelmingly about her own experience, which she has a right to do, as Northern has. These experiences were extreme enough to force her to investigate further, to try to understand what was happening. All credit to her for that.And there are many similar stories.

Isenhart - I can't tell you how right maimuna is. I'm waiting for that moment in Tottenham too, when you try out those two words. It's not 'public scorn' you'd incur.

I'm speechless that even you can be so crass.

Maimuna - I'd like to be able to suggest what to do, since you can't complain to Ofsted about a situation in a private school. I think it would have to be social services. This might be useful.
Good luck.