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waldorf steiner

1000 replies

heninthemidden · 01/03/2009 18:01

hi,

anyone had good experience of waldorf steiner education system?

OP posts:
maimuna · 23/04/2009 10:17

Morning Wilderduck,thanks for the info.
We have actually talked to Ofsted and because the school has had an Ofsted report a few years ago,we can send them our concerns and when the next inspection is due they will contact us which is good.
I also called the Equality and Human Rights Commission who said that although independent schools have there own complaints/disciplinary procedures,the fact is that racial harassment is illegal in Britain,their definition of that is
"Words or conduct that have the purpose OR effect of violating a persons dignity or creating an intimidating,hostile,degrading,humiliating or offensive environment"

I forgot to say that when our daughter complained that the teacher was being racist the teacher denied it,when our daughter carried on speaking in shock to her classmates she was moved and made to sit on her own.

wilderduck · 23/04/2009 11:08

hello maimuna -good for Ofsted that they can offer anything. Waiting for the next inspection though is difficult for you.
Glad to see that quote from the EHRC
The whole thing must be shocking for your dd.

cory · 23/04/2009 12:41

thecaty on Tue 21-Apr-09 18:25:42

"I know plenty of dc's attending state school,
I know they are underfunded, I know most teachers work their socks off!
Despite this they have constraints, they get not much training on how to strenghten the feeling world of the children as the emphasis is on getting them through exams."

The thing that has impressed me most about my dcs state school is the way they have taught the children to empathise with each other, to look out for each other, not only not to engage in bullying themselves but also to be prepared to look out for signs of others being bullied and being prepared to intervene.

This has been a far more important part of their education than any exam coaching that may have been going on.

As the mother of a disabled child, who has also suffered from frequent illnesses, incontinence and various other problems, I can only be thankful that this is how her friends have been brought up.

northernrefugee39 · 23/04/2009 13:15

I'm trying very hard to absorb what has happened to maimuma's dd.
imo the teacher should go.
I'm not sure how this would be dealt with in a state school, but it would certainly be taken incredibly seriously.
From the piece you've quoted maimuna, it actually seems to break the law.
Just as other people's experiences, including ours , were belittled and brushed aside, this is what seems those who deal with problems are trying to do here.

Isenhart, words fail me. Shame on you.
some anthro supporters would rather protect their beliefs than reject what is clearly offensive

thecaty
you are the one being childish I'm afraid. How do you want me to present "proof" of the incidents that I have been discussing here, comparing notes with other parents?
They are facts, as far as I'm concerned, not formal allegations. I haven't mentioned the school or the names of people who perpetrated them; this is an anonomous informal chat board. However seriously it affected my kids, I really don't think one calls the police for bullying. Now that is over reacting.

Get a grip.

imo what happened, and more importantly, how it was/wasn't dealt with, are symptoms of the system, "education", led by this strange thing called anthroposophy. The ideas of guardian angels protecting children, karma and past lives being "truths" which bear relation to the children in the schools, children behaving in certain ways because of their "temperament";
to me, this is total anathema.

It's supernatural bollocks.

As far as I'm concerned, Rudolf Steiner was clearly deranged, ergo, those who follow his "teaching" "truths", whatever you wish to call them, are also not really qualified to make any reasonable judgement, or choices about the education , and more importantly in these cases, care of young children.

Following a curriculum, a way of doing things in the schools, which constantly refers back to Steiner's work for answers, whether it be a way of dealing with bullying, where a child sits in the class because they are phlegmatic or sanguine, or whether it is ok to read a poem which has the word "nigger" in it, that is where the problem lies.
People are people, and bad things happen everywhere.
How they are dealt with, through which maxims and framework - that is what is important here.

(Good things happen everywhere too- yes- even in Steiner schools, I still think there are plenty of good things and good people in Steiner schools. It's the beliefs which guide them which are...suspect)

isenhart7 · 23/04/2009 13:45

"imo what happened, and more importantly, how it was/wasn't dealt with, are symptoms of the system, "education", led by this strange thing called anthroposophy."

Well, I'd have to agree with you there. Apparently, when a thirteen year old said that the only way to effect change is through fighting the adults in her immediate environment agreed.

wilderduck · 23/04/2009 19:57

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

mommybuddy · 24/04/2009 03:25

I know all about Steiner and Waldorf. If not all, then more than enough. Rudolf Steiner was a kooky cuckoo who lived a long time ago in a foreign country, and I don't understand why we should waste time on him as mothers. If you have children caught up in the Waldorf system, just get them out and move on.

wilderduck · 24/04/2009 08:02

Brilliant!

Maria33 · 24/04/2009 10:38

cory-

I too have been impressed by how kind and accepting most kids are at dcs' state primaries. I do think these skills are learnt primarily at home and then reinforced at school.

By contrast, I think that children who are raised around the unshakeable belief that their childhood is super special and of a much finer quality than other people's (that awful tv watching ds thumb twitching majority ) also play this out in the playground....

Maria33 · 24/04/2009 10:41

And it's very sad for them.

mommybuddy · 24/04/2009 15:38

That was my reaction too, that it's sad for the kids, but I just took mine out and moved on. Besides, they send kids to Iraq and Afghanistan where they get all messed up if they're lucky enough to return alive, some lose their marbles for life and become dangerous and suicidal and homicidal with incredible physical and psychological wounds, lives truly destroyed.

So compared to that, kids getting a little nutty and spaced out in a more peaceful way through Waldorf is nothing really. What it boils down to is that I'm much more opposed to the Military Industrial Complex than to the Waldorf system, although other parents are so spooked by Steiner magic and Waldorf teachers who are self-proclaimed witches that they would rather see their children in a war zone than in the clutches of bizarre occult ritualists.

isenhart7 · 24/04/2009 15:54

I agree Maria33 it can be for children who grow up in ways differing from the mainstream culture. For my Waldorf Educated dd, who's now in college-I think it's bittersweet-in fact she's debating on whether to chuck a fab college education in your neck of the woods, of all places, in order to attend culinary school instead even as we speak. It is but I also have to agree that "When the power of love overcomes the love of power , the world will know peace."

isenhart7 · 24/04/2009 16:07

I think, mommybuddy, that the kids injured in Iraq and Afganistan get assistance in the form of financial, medical, and social/emotional support. There may be hope on the horizon though-as often is the case through the travails of war-new advances to end suffering emerge.

northernrefugee39 · 24/04/2009 17:51

[hmn]
?

maimuna
I'm sure many people are feeling very sobered by what happened to your daughter.
I certainly am.
I hope you are able to deal with it, and that things work out for you and your dc.
Situations like this are never easy, our children are so precious, we only want to do what's best for them, and keep them from harm.

mommybuddy
Somehow I think you must have posted on the wrong forum.
Here in UK there is no national service.

While Dwight probably foretold more than he ever imagined in that speech about military and industrial powers, we, sadly, only have the Brown one to listen to.

Back to observing then. Bye..

mommybuddy · 24/04/2009 17:52

isenhart7:

"I think, mommybuddy, that the kids injured in Iraq and Afganistan get assistance in the form of financial, medical, and social/emotional support."

They don't get that assistance, and that's been a huge scandal and public outrage throughout the Bush adm. Private citizens & orgs have helped very generously but it's not enough; the current adm has promised improvement, so we'll see.

This is off-topic, however, but it's the unpleasant truth about the total neglect of American war veterans and their needs, highly publicized on Dr. Phil and elsewhere in the media.

mommybuddy · 24/04/2009 18:26

Sorry if I've posted to the wrong forum, but for the record, the US doesn't have national service either, it's all volyntary, but they recruit in high schools in sneaky ways, promising the kids all kinds of goodies like education, high salaries, pleasant jobs and so on, and the contracts have all kinds of fine print -- not much different from criminal abductions if you ask me.

About Waldorf: The almost one thousand messages that have been shared here scratch the surface only, just the tip of the iceberg. Sharon Lombard, a published author, has done extensive research into the more sinister aspects of the Waldorf system and its origins, and let me tell you it's not for the squeamish. If you check out other forums where devotees of Rudolf Steiner are present, your kettle will boil over for sure. Here is one Waldorf teacher who openly admits practicing witchcraft:

groups.yahoo.com/group/anthroposophy_tomorrow/message/17219

"I am a witch. I do not worship Satan. Satanism is essentially a rebellion against
the Christian God and I am not interested in rebelling. The faith I follow is
about Reclaiming our deep connection to the Goddess and the Earth."

And she is a Waldorf teacher! And if you dig a little deeper in this particular forum. you'll find more than you expected in your wildest dreams -- some parts here are worth quoting:

groups.yahoo.com/group/anthroposophy_tomorrow/message/26466

"During my own practice, I was introduced to Dr. Rudolf Steiner's
works through a patient of mine. Later on, when I was visiting
Herbert at his home in Hamburg, I told him that I had been looking
into Steiner, and that I thought Steiner suffered from a unique
variety of schizophrenia because of his suppressed childhood traumas.
What I didn't know was that Herbert had also taken a keen interest in
Steiner, and that although he was very sympathetic to my views, he
also had some startling opinions of his own.

"These opinions were based upon letters he had seen, copies of letters
that had been procured by German Waldorf parents. Herbert said they
were called "The Basement Files". Someone had tried to publish them
once, but the Anthroposophical Society had banned the publication by
court order, confiscated the letter copies, and threatened to sue.
They couldn't even be mentioned in the media, it was complete
hush-hush."

"In his later years, Steiner was desperate to reproduce his peculiar
schizophrenia, this so-called "clairvoyance" or "initiation", in
other human beings after recommending exercises had yielded no
results among his students, so he began to concentrate on children,
whose minds, he said, were more attuned to the desired condition. And
in order to facilitate this spiritual condition in children,
initiation or clairvoyance, he thought he had to reproduce something
similar to his own childhood traumas. For this purpose, he extracted
a certain number of kids from the first Waldorf school in Stuttgart
and took them to a secret area below the Goethanum: The Basement.

"According to alleged descriptions, this was no ordinary basement. It
was a cluster of rooms that looked like bomb shelters, with many long
and winding corridors going in many directions, some of them to
unknown underground facilities underneath the woods nearby, and one
such corridor was said to reach all the way to Basel. It was said
that Steiner had acquired the services of an Italian man who knew the
secrets of the ancient pyramids. Anyway, the juxtaposition of these
underground rooms and corridors created a peculiar resonance and echo
when children chanted. Copies of the chants have never been seen, but
the resonance of the chants, which had been composed by the young
Aleister Crowley, Steiner's apprentice, produced some sort of trance
in the listeners. One of the underground rooms in the direction of
the nearby woods was said to contain chains, shackles, whips, and
there were pentagrams and hexagrams everywhere.

"Herbert didn't know much about the activities that Steiner had
arranged there, but the letters describing all of it are supposedly
called "The Steiner Basement Files". And there''s more: The Stuttgart
Waldorf kids who came back home from the Goetheanum Basement, were
said to be permanently changed; their personalities, attitudes,
opinions, interests were altered. Some became incurably
schizophrenic, and on at least one occasion, a boy became so violent
and dangerous that he had to be locked up. Those who were obviously
insane were later "mercy-killed" by the Nazis, others became Nazis
themselves, and some survived the second world war and denied that
the Nazi era and the war ever happened. Herbert had also heard of
anthroposophists who denied the holocaust, and he thought this was
their background. A few of them were not in any condition to leave
the Goethanum Basement, and some of those unfortunate children have
been rumored to still live in the Basement, over 90 years old at the
present time.

"But that is not all. After Steiner's death, the knowledge of the
secret Goetheanum Basement was passed on, and some founders of
Waldorf schools built such "special facilities" underneath their
schools. There are not many of these, but rumors have it that there
are at least three such "Waldorf Basements" on each continent. Those
Waldorf teachers who learned the special skills of the Basement, were
called "inspectors", and they would visit the schools equipped with
such facilities at night. The most important element was the echo
effect that the chanting had to produce. One rumor says that the
Goethanum Basement also contained, and still contains, a special
chamber for animal and human sacrifices."

Although this looks incredible, there are corroborative factors, not only in Sharon Lombard's research but also in Steiner-biographer Stewart Easton, who writes:

"Frau Grossheintz in a memoir published some years later was to describe how to everyone's surprise Rudolf Steiner stayed on in Dornach for some time after he had first seen the site and examined the entire area, including even the underground grottos to be found in the neighborhood of Arlesheim." ("Rudolf Steiner: Herald of a New Epoch")

And that guy in Austria, Joseph F, who held his own daughter captive in his basement for 24 years with nobody suspecting, was apparently a Waldorf Basement child himself, one who escaped. Austria was Rudolf Steiner's homeland, Waldorfland. Joseph F probably tried to create his own master race, the rulers of tomorrow, by inseminating his daughter that way. And Dr. Steiner was Dr. Mengele's twin soul in a way.

But the Waldorf people are basically harmless nowadays, at least if they don't have secret basement chambers. Some of them are into a little witchcraft and black magic, but just for fun it seems, nothing too serious. Some Waldorf students may be selected for special projects though, like D. Mengele and twins for instance, but they don't torture or mistreat them like the Nazis did I don't think.

isenhart7 · 24/04/2009 19:28

thnx mommybuddy-I don't watch Dr. Phil but I do read the fine print:

Q.What are the recent changes made by Congress concerning military recruitment of high school students?

A.Congress has passed two major pieces of legislation that generally require local educational agencies (LEAs) receiving assistance under the Elementary and Secondary Education Act of 1965 (ESEA)1 to give military recruiters the same access to secondary school students as they provide to postsecondary institutions or to prospective employers. LEAs are also generally required to provide students' names, addresses, and telephone listings to military recruiters, when requested.

isenhart7 · 24/04/2009 19:40

and mommybuddy I do have to agree with northernrefugee39 here again-like that might make twice in the space of a day-shit-well I can only hope that maimuna's dd isn't reading this! I think mummybody that you are, in fact, bad to the bone. Perhaps that explains your interest in the secret basement chambers?

Tizian · 24/04/2009 19:48

No "Nigger" and not an anthology of Steiner poems

Maimuna, you wrote:

"Tizian, did you not read what I wrote, my daughters German teacher read from a Steiner book of poems

'The boy got so much chocolate on his face he looked like a nigger'."

I have checked up on what you have written and it is probably not correct. It was thoughtless of the German (language) teacher to quote from the book you mention. But it was not an "anthology of Steiner poems" as you have stated. And the verse did not say "nigger".

It was a German book titled "Bli Bla Blu" with mostly witty verses for children by an Alfred Baur (1925-2008). One of the children's verses thoughtlessly and insensitively used by the teacher as a pronunciation exercise was:

"Schleckermaulchen mochte naschen
Niemand soll es uberraschen
bei der schonen Schokolade,
Aber es war jammerschade!
Wie ein Neger anzuschaun
vollig schokoladebraun,
um und um ganz furchterlich!
Schleckermaulchen, schame dich!
Man muss grundlich dich jetzt waschen
nach dem Schokoladenaschen."

"Sweet tooth wanted to nibble
at the good chocolate.
That should not surprise anyone.
But my oh my,
he came to look like a Negro,
completely chocolate brown
all over!
Shame on you sweet tooth!
Now you have to wash
after you nibbled at the chocolate."

No "nigger" there, just the (at least not long ago) neutral "Negro"-brown in the children's verse (by the author born 1925) to describe a child who nibbled at chocolate too eagerly.

Not sending the boy home who called your daughter a "nigger" is another thing. That is something the teacher should have done!

I'm sure the school has noted and taken action with regard to the incident, that is untypical of Steiner pupils and schools, at least in Germany.

isenhart7 · 24/04/2009 20:11

Damn-no nigger is right because I think the German language has the word "nigger" as an import as they have had the word "niggerjazz" since at least WWII. So here it is "Neger". My own children, OTOH, both public and private school students have been exposed to a variety of texts with the word "nigger"-"To Kill a Mockingbird" and "Of Mice and Men" come to mind. I am so sorry maimuna-I did not understand that a boy called your daughter a "nigger".

maimuna · 24/04/2009 20:28

Tizian, I know the poem in German says Negro,

the teacher chose to translate it as NIGGER !

The school have admitted it,we have the minutes from the two meetings we have had with them,

Journalists please message me,we have proof.

`Tizian you are so lost that you do not even realize that the poem is racist if you use,nigger Negro or Black person.

maimuna · 24/04/2009 20:39

Isenhart,you are sounding like the teachers at our school,it just proves to me that you have no understanding,but its fine because you people are doing amazing job of proving exactly what I am saying is the problem with the Steiner system.

My child's teacher said nigger,she didn't have to,they weren't studying a GCSE book.

maimuna · 24/04/2009 20:48

Northernrefugee,
thanks for the message,we are all ok,still angry but getting ready for the third meeting at school.

As I said we have the notes from the meeting that the school gave us,they were very organised with that which is good,

Not sure what will happen but I will let you know of course.
I feel sad as well as our daughter loves her friends there and there are some really nice teachers there ,I just believe this has all happened.

What upsets me most is the reaction and ignorance of the school,the German teacher obviously is beyond help but it's their inaction that has hurt the most.

northernrefugee39 · 24/04/2009 20:54

Tizian, so does the translation you have found exonerate the offensiveness do you think?
Do you really think what you have posted makes any difference to how maimuna's daughter felt whatsoever?
You say it was "thoughtless" of the teacher to chose that particular poem. I find the tone of your post patronising and belittling.
This is a child we are talking about.

You have not once shown any sympathy towards maimune or her daughter, but launched into a defence, and told maimune she is wrong.

People aren't as stupid as... you....(may belive)
One only has to go to the Rudolf Steiner Archive to read offensive passages about race.

Judging by the stories told on this thread alone of the way Steiner schools deal with "complaints" or even questioning, I should imagine maimune will have to be very patient.

mommybuddy · 24/04/2009 20:56

We don't spell that word out at all anymore; we only refer to it as the n-word if we're not black, although black comedians and rappers and so on spell it out, which is another reason why there's a strong movement to erase it from usage altogether.

However, all this babble about the word "Negro" being translated into the n-word by some dumb teacher or whatever is chickenshit. The real issue is that Rudolf Steiner invented an occult approach to mold young souls into the mindset of a future master race through subconscious programming, to rule the earth in the sixth epoch or on Jupiter or something.

So the Waldorf people are basically saying, "Bring us your kids, whether they're black, white, red, brown, or yellow, we'll mold all of them into a master race that will rule the world in the future." They don't tell all the parents that, but many parents are already in on it, because they're devotees of "der Doctor" which ought to be translated as "the Kook", and brainwashed by his seductive literature.

The master race will be clairvoyant and clairaudient, reading and hearing everybody else's thoughts and dreams, and when they legislate Steiner-law it will be much worse than sharia-law because they can arrest and prosecute people for thought-crimes. George Orwell's thought police will be a reality, and the only political party allowed will be the Anthroposophical Party.

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