Would any teachers on here consider home educating their own children?

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Whether yes or no, why? And if yes, at what age/stage? I'm curious.

Many thanks.

I have really enjoyed this thread.

I really agree with the posts that 5 candles has put up. I was really interested in HE for a while, read all the books and met a number of HE families. I have kept up with about 6 HE families. Three of them are doing a wonderful job but 3 of them are disastrous.

Primary schooling is one of the Rights of the Child as laid out in the UN's conventions for the Rights of the Child. For all the problems with primary schooling in this country (and I am not a huge fan of the NC) I do think that the achievement of good, free primary and secondary education for all children is one of which we should all be proud and if you are denying your child the opportunity to take part in it, you should feel pretty confident about the alternative provision that you are making.

Obviously schools do not suit all children and I completely accept that HE provides an excellent alternative for some children. BUT I also have seen very well intentioned parents socially isolate their children and completely fail to give them a basic grasp of literacy and numeracy by ages nine and ten. Nor are these children great painters/ musicians or creative minds etc etc They are just normal children who have no friends and can't actually read, write or multiply.

It is important to highlight the successes of Home Education, but for some of the children it fails, it really does fail.

Before anyone jumps in and says "School also fails children." I would like to say, that of course this is true. But I do not think that any school can fail a child quite as totally and devastatingly as their parents can (be they home edders or otherwise). One reason I send my children to school is cos I know I get it wrong (a lot) and sometimes I have been completely blown away by how teaching methods that leave me cold have totally worked for my dc's...

i think linden means, that during the day, if they have had enough of learning a particular subject, then they cannot leave and do something else. The have to study xyz for x amount of minutes until th bell goes, then they must do abc.

Autonomous education is very diffferent. If a child wishes to study for 0 hours, 1 hour or 2 they will. If they want to study a certain subject, it will be of their own choice. It really may sound bizarre to most people who have children at school, but you have to read the books and see for yourself that it really does work.

Linden, sorry if i have got it wrong, and this isnot what you meant!

I think we should leave out the extremes of either system. Children get suicidal at school and they get suicidal at home. Some children have such chaotic home lives that school is the only place that offers a respite. I don't think we should be criticising other people's choices-OP asked if teachers would consider HE their own DCs-the answer is yes, but luckily I haven't had to and, as we have almost finished, I am not going to need to.

OK, I see that. And I can see how HE might be particularly effective for the gifted and also those with SN. What concerns me is the opportunities to opt out of difficult subject areas and also how these children will adjust to the restrictions of exams for example if they do choose to do them or of employment. Unfortunately, you can't just walk out of a meeting if you get bored. Wish you could...

'One reason I send my children to school is cos I know I get it wrong (a lot) and sometimes I have been completely blown away by how teaching methods that leave me cold have totally worked for my dc's... '

This is what I like-other people have let my children really blossom with something that I wouldn't have even considered.

One thing to consider with HE is that you are doing it for a long time! My SIL read all the books and started with great enthusiasm but she has been doing it for 10 yrs and has much longer to go (I don't think youngest will ever go to school because he has never been), she has told me that she is tired of it-she wants to move on to other things but is stuck.
She knows a whole range of families from those with well balanced children who are having a wonderful positive experience to the children who have been disastrously failed by their parents.

fivecandles - you can just walk out of a meeting if you get bored! However, it might not be the best thing to do if you want to keep your job.

My point is that we all do things we dont want to do, but as adults, we are wanting the results of those things. If we didnt want the result, it wouldnt matter anymore. I dont like the ironing, but I want non-creasy clothes. If creases didnt bother me, then I wouldnt do the ironing!

Children dont always know why they are learning things - the motivation is not always because of the result. They learn because its interesting! And with child-led learning, they are learning because they can choose what is interesting.

Lindenlass - I really liked your post about why you home ed.

Lindenlass
Great post!
That's why we home-ed too.

I would also like to add that I am training to be a teacher. Most of the schools round us are pretty good. I have spent quite some time observing a variety of teachers in various local schools and what strikes me is what a profoundly human experience teaching is.

The variety of teaching styles is as wide as the variety of people teaching. Teachers working to exactly the same lesson plan and learning objectives can give completely different learning experiences. Do not underestimate the variety of teaching methods that children are exposed to in schools. Different children will take different things from these situations and from these teachers. Of course some lessons are dull, but some are sparky and imaginative in ways that I would never have conceived. I am happy and grateful that my kids have such easy access to such a variety educational experiences (cos heaven knows, I can bore them ) and I know that I would really struggle to replicate this at home.

If school doesn't work for a child (and clearly it does not for many kids) then it is great tat there are other options. But I think that people who reject school right off the bat for their kids often underestimate what a long-haul schooling is and quite how much good schools are able to provide.

I was a teacher - secondary biology - before having DS and i am very excited about the prospect of HE. (DH also behind it, and he is an ex-teacher too). I've worked in one very 'good' grammar school, one school in special measures, and did training in lots of others in between.

Many teachers are enthusiastic, caring and knowledgeable, but there is no way that an institution can treat a child as an individual. They have to conform. They can only mix with other children within a small age range. They have to concentrate for a set length of time then STOP and change subject - no matter if they wanted to stop before, or carry on for hours.

As Lindenlass said (and i loved reading your post about why you HE) - i dont want to control my child - i want my child to have control over his own life. I certainly dont want an institution which does not have his best interests as its raison d'etre to control him!

A lot of time at school is wasted time - lining up, waiting for other children to stop talking, waiting for others to finish, hearing an explanation for a fourth time because someone didnt understand, busywork etc etc. I want DS to LOVE learning, and learn about whatever it is he loves. It is my experience, that although you do get pockets of real excitement and joy in the classroom - and lots of humour - many children 'do well' because they want to pass exams, not because they truly desire to learn. All well and good for their future careers, but i want MORE for DS.

HE is NOT about sitting at home on your own teaching from a book. It is about becoming involved in the local community/world - following interests to wherever they may lead. There is a vibrant HE community in our area with regular meetups and visits. It is not a lonely life, but one in which the child can mix with people of all ages in a variety of real life situations. If DS shows an interest in art/trampolining/drumming/arabic then i will seek out groups and people to teach him! I realise of course that i am in a fortunate position of being able to afford tutors/extended trips abroad/subscriptions to magazines etc, which certainly helps.

My DS is not a square peg to be pounded into a round hole. He is DS, and i want to help him be the most fulfilled DS he can be. I dont think school has that objective.

(apologies for the evangelical nature of this post - i havent even started HE yet - perhaps i will change my tune )

Listen, I don't think that everyone should home educate, and I especially think that parents who just don't want to do it should not do it. But I do think that we have a responsibility as parents to educate ourselves thoroughly on things that are as big a deal as our children's education.

I don't actually home educate in order to escape school, I do it because, as I said in a more roundabout way, it follows on from how we have set out to parent our children - there is no way school could fulfil the things we think are most important for children.

I would just like to post the following statistics, which are accurate, because people seem to be dismissing the children committing suicide thing - even one child being so despairing they commit suicide is too many, but actually the figures are sadly far higher than that:

• More than 360,000 children injured in schools each year
• 450,000 children bullied in school last year
• At least 16 children commit suicide each year as a result of school bullying
• An estimated 1 million children truant every year
• more than 1 in 6 children leave school each year unable to read, write or add up

Yes, school is fab for some children, but it will be a minority - there is no way that, when you consider how different every child is, that school can do well for most children who attend it.

I wonder though Linden how many of those children would be able to read, write or add up even if they were HE? Of course some would but it is not the magic answer.

Of course for some children HE is the only answer but to say that school is fab for a minority of children is just ridiculous.

HE is not a panacea. Most parents don't know it's an option, most parents wouldn't want to do it, some parents may not have the capacity to do it. The right to an appropriate education is a wonderful thing, and schools try their best. I think what i want to say is, it is not the only way, and in my opinion not the best way to get an education. HE is a valid choice, and in no way deprives children of socialisation/access to knowledge/fun. (of course there will be both HE parents and schools who short-change the children in their care)

I would also take issue with the fact that school is fab for a minority of children. I go into a lot of schools and the majority of children love it, they are keen to learn, have lots of friends-you should see them when they get back after a holiday, they can't wait to catch up with everyone, and are very proud of it and their achievements. This is not because they don't know any better!
In our case it was wonderful-I don't know how I would have coped with a wide age range at home. What would I do with a 9 yr old and two babies? I was very pleased that my 9 yr old was happy at school leaving me free to go to toddler groups. I couldn't have taken him with me and it would have been a shame for them to have missed out. I had two younger siblings myself, I played with them a lot and read to them, I was like a little mother to the youngest, but I wouldn't have liked to have been with them all the time. Sometimes the practicalities just don't work.
I am quite happy for people to say that it suits them best, but those of us who have chosen school have made an informed choice for what suits our DCs best, it isn't a question of following the herd, we have read the same books in many cases-we have just taken a different message from them.
I am not going to quote figures but if I looked them up I could find how many children die at the hands of their parents(I believe it to be one a week-a shocking figure), how many are abused at home (most child abuse occurs at home by people the child knows) and how many run away from home because they are not wanted or have too many arguments or abusive parents, and since we don't test HE children we won't know figures but it wouldn't surprise me if the same proportion of HE children couldn't read or write (my SIL knows several).You could conclude from that home is a terrible experiece for children-I know it is only the minority as it is with school children.

"I am not going to quote figures but if I looked them up I could find how many children die at the hands of their parents(I believe it to be one a week-a shocking figure), how many are abused at home (most child abuse occurs at home by people the child knows) and how many run away from home because they are not wanted or have too many arguments or abusive parents,"

And what would those figures have to do with HE children? They are not relevant to HE.
The figures that Lindenlass quotes are relate to school children.

Am amazed at the levels of ignorance about home education displayed on here!! HE children are assessed annually by most LEAs, and in studies, most have been found to be 1-2 years ahead of their schooled peers, without any kind of force-feeding.

There is a huge benefit for children to learn things at exactly their own pace, and when they are ready- the learning process is cut to a minimum length, which means that far more can be achieved (bear in mind the practically ideal staffing levels at home) in far less time.

You cannot compare how your schooled child behaves after a heavy day at school with a child whose place of learning is the home! In fact, those HE naysayers of here must have children whose love of learning has been squashed by school out of them if they truly believe that children could learn nothing at home...

'And what would those figures have to do with HE children? They are not relevant to HE.
The figures that Lindenlass quotes are relate to school children. '

Lindenlass is scaremongering. She is making out that school is a dreadful place for the majority of children because of the statistics she has quoted. To put it into context; she says that 360,000 children are injured in school in a year. Nearly 900,000 children under the age of 15 were injured in the home in 2002. My point was that if you took the figures of those living on the streets, taken into care etc you would draw the conclusion that the family in Britain was in a dreadful state. This is not the case, it is the minority. The figures quoted by Lindenlass are a minority. I don't think that scaremongering is helpful.

"HE children are assessed annually by most LEAs, and in studies, most have been found to be 1-2 years ahead of their schooled peers, without any kind of force-feeding."

I think that you will find that most HE children are not assessed annually by LEAs-most HEers resist visits or anything to do with LEAs-they most certainly don't let them be tested. (I think that is one thing that you could back me up on Juule, having being on the same threads). The one thing that I have learned is that LEAs can't insist on a visit unless there is real cause for concern.
If children are tested you can be sure that they are doing very well. In a straw poll with my SILs quite large group I would say that it is very like school, the high achievers, the average and the ones that are going to start when ready.

I know we generally disagree Juuule but please back me up on the testing. My SIL has regular visits from the LEA but no one has even suggested that the DCs are tested.

When I said testing, I didn't mean they stick them through KS tests, which as a teacher myself I frankly think are a crock of shit anyway. In fact KS tests were almost one of the reasons we nearly did home educate. Luckily though we found a school that didn't. I mean they come and check that children are broadly on target for their ages.

Duchesse while I agree with most of your post of Wed 04-Mar-09 08:30:04 particularly
"Am amazed at the levels of ignorance about home education displayed on here!! " I agree with what Piscesmoon is saying about HE children and testing.

Duchesse "I mean they come and check that children are broadly on target for their ages."
This isn't so. HE children are not always at the stage that schoolchildren of the same age would be expected to be at. This is one of the positives of HE in that a child can move at their own pace.

Piscesmoon I don't think that Lindenlass was scaremongering. I think she was highlighting that school is not a great place for a lot of children.

The LEA do not have any authority to test children, even in the sense you mean Duchesse. The LEA are able to make enquiries if they have reason to believe the child is not getting an appropriate education. That's all.

I know many home educated children who cannot read or spell even to quite a late age compared to schooled children.
Depending on the parents philosophy, many will be allowed to come to reading and writing when they are ready.

I know a child who couldn't read or spell aged 12.
She had left school aged nearly nine completely unable to read or spell even her own name (school did not recognise her very severe dyslexia and were of no help when it was diagnosed privately. They did offer a meagre 30 mins twice a week once their own Ed Psych agreed with the degree of difficulty.

Once deregistered from school, her parents quickly settled into autonomous home education where she followed her own interests,
Her education was based around talking and talking, going on visits to workshops/galleries/museums/theatres etc etc.
But she would definitely be one of those HE children that people comment about not being able to read or spell.

She began to 'get' reading and spelling at around 13 and very quickly caught up.
She completed her first OU starter course (at degree entry level) and achieved all of the outcomes just before her 16th birthday.
She reads Oscar Wilde/Shakespeare/classics now as well as modern literature.
She is independent and travels all over the country on her own and even across the Atlantic. She is confident articulate and very happy.

I know her because she is my youngest child.

Tell me that the same level of achievement has been attained by the children in the remedial classes she left behind and I'd laugh out loud! I know what has happened to those children, we still see them. They have been left in those bottom classes and will leave school soon, still unable to read or spell well.

My daughter is unusual in the home ed community only in that she was quite so late getting reading, but then I don't know many people (HE or schooled) with such very severe dyslexia) but many of the literally hundreds of home ed children and young people we know coming to reading and spelling very late compared to schooled children. They all have got there in their own time and then caught up very fast indeed.

This is one of my very big concerns about LAs insisting on assessing suitability of home ed. I bought this up with many LA representatives at a national conference last week. I have bought it up with the man who is charged with reviewing home education by the DCFS. I'll bring it up again when next I meet him, and so will my daughter. None of the LAs I spoke to at the conference last week felt able to tell me whether they would have found her education to be suitable if they had visited and assessed her aged 12.
It is a very difficult area and one you can imagine I feel very passionate about.

I don't mind what other parents do regarding their children's education. It has nothing to do with me.
I am passionate that the information that home education is a legal valid choice, equal in status to schools, is out there, so that parents can make an informed decision about what is right for their family at that time.

All I know about this is that Devon recruits people to the LEA to visit HE children and pupils who are excluded from school. I know this because I nearly applied to do it two years ago. Part of the job description was yearly visits to home educated children.

julien- my children's little school also stands by this philosophy. I have seen children there with severe dyslexia go from being unable to write legibly at 10 and 11, to going on to be perfectly age appropriately literate by 13 and fully able to slot back into mainstream schooling (although this school is technically mainstream!). The school's founder had a wife with severe dyslexia who was deemed uneducable as a child, and two dyslexic sons, and this steered his thinking in how to handle all children's education. He achieves this by teaching children at the level they have reached and letting them make the next move, rather than by pushing them along to the next level before they are ready.

There are many children at this school whose fathers are dyslexic and were made to feel completely useless at school; some were beaten or humiliated. They are mostly extremely bright men who have managed to overcome their appalling early schooling, but are determined to put their own children in the same situation. Anybody who thinks that school is a marvelous fit for every child needs to feel lucky that their children have no problems there.

Any child with ASD spectrum problems, with odd parents, with any streak of "difference" is in m experience mercilessly picked on. At best only by a few of the meaner-spirited children, at worst by the entire school including many of the teachers -I once witnessed a very ill-adapted child being beaten up by a gang of girls; took the girls to task over it, dealt with it and told their tutor. Their tutor's response was that "Michael brought it on himself". Poor Michael was constantly in trouble because he "lost" exercise books, "dropped them in puddles" and "lost" homework. He didn't even bother complaining any more because he knew no-one would help him. If I were Michael's parents I would have been spitting snakes.

I know a lot more Duchess.

My children have been home educated for more than eight years now.
They have chosen not to met with the LA or allow them to see any of their work. I have respected their choices and we have not had a home visit and the children have never been assessed (until they successfully achieved a level/OU qualifications by their own choice) Instead we comply with the law by sending written information-see below.

The LA as MIS says, may make informal enquiries if they have reason to believe an education is not taking place.
Case law states that Home Educators would be wise to answer these enquiries.
But the choice of how to provide information about the education being provided, is the parents.
They may choose to have a home visit (undertaken by someone in a job such as you nearly applied for) by having their education endorsed by a third party, or by sending in a written report and 'Educational Philosophy')

If the LA is not satisfied that the information provided leads them to believe an education suitable to the child's age aptitude and ability (including any SEN the child may have) then they can ask for more detailed evidence.

If they still are not satisfied they can in the end issue a School Attendance Order (SAO)

So if a LA has the powers to do something about it if they feel that a child is not receiving a suitable education.
Likewise Social Services have the power to do something if there is a welfare concern with the child.

Thank you juuule, I know that most HEers would chop off their right arm rather than let the LEA see if they were on target for their ages!! Actually, I agree with them on that one, I think the education should fit the DC and they shouldn't be expected to jump through a hoop because they are a certain age. I know also that lots of them are not 1-2 years ahead of the same age in school ( a rather silly term anyway as the range in a school year is tremendous) but I don't know why we have an obsession with making everyone academic. Some HE children will be super bright, some will be artistic, some will be practical. Some are just not ready. My DS had a boy in his class who was always a bit of a handful, he didn't want to be at school, he wanted to be out on his bike, playing football, on computer games etc.He is one of Lindenlass's statistics with no qualifications. I have to say that he wouldn't have been magically changed by HE, he would still have wanted to be out on his bike etc. He went right off the rails and was out all hours, if there was any trouble with petty crime his name would come up. (He was from a very nice, caring family btw). My DS came back from the gym last week and said 'I have just seen Josh, he has stopped drinking and smoking, got a job and is in training to get fit! I don't think you can completely blame the schools-he found out the hard way that his life wasn't going anywhere-some people need to do that.

Yesterday Maria33 came on and said "I have really enjoyed this thread" ,I feel the same. I am not being difficult-I just love talking about education-I do it a lot with people I know but we tend to think the same so it isn't tremendously interesting. I find talking about it with people who have completely different ideas much more interesting-I am not attacking people, just fascinated by the philosophies.