Would any teachers on here consider home educating their own children?

[Matchbox]

Whether yes or no, why? And if yes, at what age/stage? I'm curious.

Many thanks.

Knowing about integration and differential calculus makes you a better engineer or computer programmer. Dp uses them. I don't use those but I do use various other parts of the A level maths and further maths syllabus despite not being in a job which requires maths (I use statistics and formal logic). For me the abstract reasoning is a hugely important part of education.

Not that I'm saying you can't do this and home ed (DP and I could teach this sort of thing to our dc to A level standard). But I would hate my children not to learn abstract obscure things that don't have any immediate relevance. And I think any education which focuses only on the purely pragmatic is worrying - such as the notion that you sometimes get on home ed discussions that you can learn about maths by going shopping and adding up the change, etc.

So surely if you're going to be an engineer or computer programmer you'd go and find a way to learn about integration and differential calculus?

I got A for GCSE maths and have got A-Level physics and never learnt about calculus.

The informal learning you're talking about is true, but of course not once you need to get deeper into a subject, but when children are very interested in something, they'll find ways to learn about it - HEing parents really find that all they are needed for are helping their children find out how to find things out IYSWIM. Have you read anything about informal learning?

Yes, maybe, I wasn't arguing against home ed at all, but sometimes I do see people arguing on home ed threads that you can learn enough about everything by focusing on immediate practical applications. Qhich to me would be the opposite of a good education.

It's not though - it works fantastically well! Children are naturally curious but some get that curiosity dulled by being in school and having to learn things they're not interested in at a time that's not right for them, and by being stopped from exploring things they are interested in.

I used to think like you. In fact, I vividly remember reassuring a friend vehemently that when my DDs got to 'school age' I wouldn't be doing 'autonomous education', exclaiming at how it could never work just letting them get on with life and not do 'lessons'. But I've read more and more, and spent a lot of time with lots of other home educators who trust in informal learning, and am seeing my own DDs learn loads and loads and loads informally. I totally trust in the process now, and find it immeasurably exciting watching it happen

I am a teacher and would love to HE my son when he reaches school age. I love teaching, and I try to make it as creative, broad and interesting as possible. But I am constrained by the timetable and the NC, and of course SATs.
I would love to give ds the opportunity to learn through things that really interest him. To spend ages learning through vehicles / dinosaurs / being outside all the time / whatever he is interested in. To socialise, and learn with, with a broad age group of children.
I love my job, and find it inspiring and stimluating, but really see the constraints of the curriculum, league tables etc etc, and wonder how it would be if those constraints weren't there. And I hate the one size fits all attitude, even though it is necessary in mass education.
So I am hoping that I will be able to balance working part-time (I am a single parent) with HE'ing ds.
Really, I suppose what I would ideally like is to HE as a group, so ds learns from other adults and children, I can still work part-time, and so we dont live in each other's pockets and end up winding each other up...

Ragged, I think if you can get involved in your local HE 'scene', you may well find you're making friends with families with whom you can come to 'child swapping' type arrangements.

lindenlass - that is interesting. I have lots of ideas about what HE is like, but really dont know how it really works!! I should check out local groups, but an internet search in my (soon-to-be) area (I'm moving) brings up nothing..

I think it's pretty obvious that if you were free to learn what you wanted you would focus on what you most enjoyed. That would have meant for me a fairly narrow focus. I would have avoided maths completely and quite a bit of science. My dds are similar. I would have also found languages (which I enjoy and have been successful at) very difficult without the teaching of a fluent French speaker. I also wonder what HEdders do about exams. You may feel that the NC is limited or irrelevant or whatever but it remains the case that most employers and universities look for formal qualifications. I do a lot of the sort of activities described by HE parents with my children at weekends and during the 13 weeks holiday we all get a year but I recognize that they benefit and enjoy the input of other teachers and their peers. They thrive on this challenge. While I recognize that many HE get together in groups and share expertise they cannot possibly have access to the sort of expertise, resources and facilities in a school. And it's not just the academic. MY dcs love sport and drama and choir and orchestra - clearly these are not things you can do on your own!

Elbert Hubbard once said "A school should not only be a preparation for life. A school should BE life"

there are plenty of opportunities to do sport and drama and music outwith school - none of my DDs have ever been remotely challenged in school music lessons for example, because they have external lessons. Both DD1 and DD2 have had (minor) run-ins with teachers because the PE coaching has been poorer than their club coaching sessions (wrong technique, wrong rules being applied). We don't do drama, but there are plenty of drama clubs around - all accessisble to HE children, as well as anything organised by HE groups.
And getting back to "how could I possibly teach calculus to my child" - if a child is wanting to learn stuff at that kind of level, and the parent can't do it, the majority of HE parents would find someone else to explain/tutor/coach. Plenty of people out there, perfectly happy to work with keen and enthusiastic children. HE is not just sitting at home with Mum learning what Mum knows (in my case, it would be "how to write stroppy emails" and "how to waste hours at a time on Mumsnet" ). I've failed totally to teach any DD how to sing, or knit. Knitting isn't something any of them paricularly want to do, so they haven't bothered; singing is becoming an issue because they need that for music exams, so I'm going to outsource it to someone who can deal with that. That's how HE works.
(sorry, didn't mean to rant, am slightly PMSey and in a belligerent mood at the moment, nothing's aimed at anyone in particular)

I think my point is that I send my kids to school because the school offers all of those things for free - singing, sport, drama, calculus, French. Together with friends. I don't have to go looking for individuals who have that expertise because I trust that the school will provide it.

But also I find it hard to believe that just preventing my kids from going to school is going to make them enthusiastic about learning things that they instinctively don't like but need to learn.

For adults and children alike there are always going to be things we don't enjoy or don't grasp easily. That doesn't mean that they're not necessary.

This means that even if you HE your children you are going to come across situations where you're trying to get them to learn stuff (however you do that) that they don't want to learn. Or else you allow them to opt out of certain subjects in which case there will be gaps in their knowledge and also they may find it very difficult to cope with for example university or employment where they aren't allowed any sort of freedom of choice over what work they do.

Personally I wouldn't want to be the one to do this. I find that my kids are completely motivated by the fact that they have a variety of teachers with a variety of teaching methods telling encouraging them to learn together with the hugely positve influence of their peers all learning the same stuff.

I'm not saying that I'm necessarily against HE but I absolutely wouldn't want it for my own kids.

And you really find 'plenty of people' out there able for example to teach calculus or art or French?

For free?

not necessarily for free, but I wouldn't like to guarantee that I wouldn't have to pay to supplement what was being provided in school anyway (as I currently do - music, dance, trampolining, rugby). Fortunately my DDs don't need things like Kumon, but I know a lot of parents whose children do a full day at school, then go on to extra tutoring.
However, off the top of my head, I could get free science and art tuition, as part of a skill-swap with local HE parents, similarly MFL with a native speaker (better than DD1s GCSE class gets), I could swap singing lessons for something, ... that's without actually asking on my local HE list. There will be a lot more people out there who would swap skills, and I live in an area with low numbers of HEers.

Skill-swapping? Well, as a lot of our local HEors are teachers, we could get science (to secondary school level - in fact I know two secondary school science teachers who are HEing) pretty easily, my DD1 is learning French from a local Frenchman and Spanish from the wife of a Spaniard. My Grandma was a physicist so, while she probably couldn't teach physics off the top of her head, would obviously understand all the work enough to facilitate my children learning it - although I have A-Level physics so ought to be able to do it myself.

The thing is, it's all very well having all those things 'for free', as it were, but actually it's only for free financially speaking. There are a lot of other costs involved in school, that aren't just financial, and that's what a lot of HEors decide is the problem.

I think you have a very rose-tinted view of the experience of school for children, fivecandles. Perhaps that's because you were one of the lucky few who loved it and found it worked well for them. Perhaps your children are too (or maybe they just don't tell you if they aren't!).

Give me some examples, please, of things children ought to know but might not want to learn about that they wouldn't learn just through living life. I completely disagree with you at the moment, but am happy to be swayed if you can come up with something!

"How's the 13 year teaching career coming along? Any more career breaks for au pairing you'd care to mention"

grow up! You seem to follow me everywhere I go, do you really have nothing better to do with your time?? for a supposed literacy co-ordinator, you seem to have a LOT of extra time on your hands.

in answer to your question, I aupaired for two years before I began teaching, is that ok with you? Perhaps I should have sought your permission first?? and I am now looking for an au pair to help with my own children.

As to your other points, can't be bothered to argue with you feenie, you know everything and are always right, even though you misinterpreted what I said as per usual. I am just glad that people ignore your comments, and well, thats enough for me.

Wow Feenie, super-sleuth!

Just call me Sherlock Feen

OK, for me a lot of this does end up coming down to qualifications. As I say, regardless of what you personally feel about them that is what is recognized by universities and employers and therefore if you are preparing your children for either or both of these they are almost certainly going to need some qualifications.

While you may well be able to get tuition for a little bit of this and a liitle bit of that by skill swapping,your own knowledge etc it's not the same as having teachers who are experienced in preparing students for paticular exam specifications. Personally I became a much better teacher (not just getting them through exams but better at teaching) after being an examiner. In my department most of us have and do examine. Unless your kids are taught by practising teachers they are going to miss out on a huge amount of up to date knowledge.

If you accept that your kids need to sit and pass exams (which you may not) then you have to cover the content of those exams. As I said, while my kids are keen about school and enthusiastic learners there are bits of the curriculum and subjects which they're not thrilled about. Quadratic equations come to mind. I hated Geography and anything to do with maps. IMHO this is natural and normal. It is a very rare and exceptional person who loves learning about everything.

So I can think of lots of examples. THere are even things and that I don't like teaching and particular texts that I don't enjoy.

IMHO learning about things you don't enjoy is important. It's not all about fun and games. If you can opt out of the stuff you don't enjoy there will be gaps in your skills and knowledge. If, as parent, you don't want your kids to have those gaps and you do want them to get qualifications and good grades in those then it will end up being down to you to encourage your kids to do those. I don't want this role (any more than I already have it). I rely on a variety of teachers and methods and opinions of other adults and the influence of their peers to encourage my kids to get through the bits they don't find enjoyable or that they struggle with.

I wonder how far HE will be challenged.

When I go to the gym I don't push myself as much as when I go to a class and am motivated by an instructor and the fact that everyone is doing the same thing. Even having a programme worked out by an instructor encourages me to push myself more than I would if left to my own devices and therefore make more progress and get fitter.

I think everyone needs other people to guide and instruct them all the way through life. I think children who don't get this or enough of this or people who have enough expertise and training miss out.

And no, as a teacher, I certainly don't have rose tinted glasses. There were many aspects of my failing comp that I didn't enjoy but given the choice of this or no school I certainly wouldn't have chosen HE. And both my parents were teachers and could ahve covered most of the curriculum between them but I wouldn't have wanted this kind of relationship with them.

As far as money goes also. It's not just the paying for expert tuition that you have to factor in is it? For me that would be miniscule compared to my loss of earnings. For me I would rather spend my earnings on private education where I know my kids will ahve a positive experience of school and continue to preserve my own life as a teacher with all the messages that gives my kids.

Once again I am not saying I'm necessarily against HE if and where it works. But not for me or mine and I certainly do have concerns about it for others.

I am getting ready to home educate one of my children. I was very worried about this exact same question in the title of the post!

However, I have 'learnt' that it doesnt really matter - but no one 'taught' me that.

That, for me, is key to that way I want to home educate. As a parent, in law, I have a responsibility to provide an education that is both suitable for how we live and effective, while not limiting his ability to integrate/beome part of a different social setting if he chooses when older. So, if we live in a small eco-community of small-holders, artists, craftspeople (one day!) the education we provide could be about learning the importance of biodiversity, changing seasons, permaculture principles, farming, landskills, pottery, cooking, homemaking skills, preserving, building your own home, generating power from natural resources etc. This would be seen as suitable as it would be reflective of the community in which he lived.

An education is deemed effective if he learns the things we would like him to learn. We cannot, however, STOP him from learning other, additional things that are not maybe OUR lifestyle choice, for one day, they may be his. And I will encourage this! He is not me. He is he.

I very much like the principles of project based and inquiry based home learning, so we will be working with HIS choice of projects, plus OUR principles of living plus knowledge and experiences of our friends, other home educators/resources/reflections.

To learn and to teach are different. I want him to learn all the things he wants to in order for him to have the adverntures he wants to and be a fulfilled and happy man in adulthood. I do think it matters what he learns and RETAINS and therefore shapes his character and values, but I dont think most of what really matters in this world can be 'taught'. It has to be learned. By him. I am not responsible for what he learns - I cannot be as I am not him! by job will be to make sure that I provide learning opportunities for him to do so.

Qualifications are not a requirement for univeristy if you have been home educated. I doubt they will give a place to a schooled student with no qualifications, but 'methods' of home education mean that there IS no formal testing by which to mark by, so often it becomes irrelevant. I understand that indepth interviews and projects submitted will be taken in place of qualification.

But nobody is answering my questions about qualifications.

And where is the sense that what matters to a 5 or even a 12 year old may not be what prepares them for their life as an adult?

I think any child wanting to go to university without qualifications will have serious difficulties getting into a university or into employment and therefore by hugely disadvantaged.

I accept that just teaching something doesn't mean a child is going to learn it but I also think that teaching is very often essential to learning. It's very often to decide to learn something (whether it's algebra or driving) without any form of tuition and without formal structures (like school or lessons) far too easy to give up on things that aren't immediately fun or easy. TBH some of what is being said here sound ridiculously naive.

That should say hard to learn something without any form of tuition.

And there is absolutely nothing to stop your child learning about any one of the things you have listed above squidler as well as going to school or in school.

I agree fivecandles. But I am finding that by the time they get home, do homework, eat, play and chill for a bit, chat about the day, have a shower......... its time for bed!

It depends on what sort of learner you are. I couldn't do Open University now, I need the buzz of the other students, I need to share ideas and debate. I want an inspired teacher to teach me. I don't want someone to felicitate my learning, as a DC I didn't know what I wanted to learn anyway. Some people don't want any of the things that I have listed, even within the same family you get DCs who have very different learning styles and needs.
Don't be too sure that they will just walk into university without qualifications squidler, we hear about the sucesses, I know of a boy who went to Cambridge, you don't hear about the failures. Without qualifications you have to doubly prove yourself-real life is tough, very tough and doors don't just open.