Would any teachers on here consider home educating their own children?

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Whether yes or no, why? And if yes, at what age/stage? I'm curious.

Many thanks.

I agree with twinset. Yes, there are schools where bullying is a problem and not addressed as it should be (though these schools are in both private and state sectors, so it's nonsense to imply as Melissa does, that it's some sort of Government policy that prevents the issue being addressed).

There are also a huge number of excellent schools where bullying is not tolerated. As twinset says, bullying can never be totally eradicated because sadly some people are bullies, but that's not a problem with school per se. Bullying can happen anywhere - in the workplace, and probably most of all within the family.

If I were Melissa, I would not be prepared to carry on working in a school which does 'nothing' about bullying, which is what she claims. My conscience would not allow it.

I disagree actually violet I think poor schools need good teachers so they can change. If good teachers desert them those poor students will never get a good education. I worked in a school that I fundamentally disagreed with as long as my health would allow.

I think all schools need good teachers twinset.

What concerned me about Melissa's post was that she said she works in a school where bullying is tolerated. And it should NOT be like that. It's rubbish to say that the school's hands are tied, and that they don't have the power to address bullying.

I could teach in a school with a poor social demographic as its catchment.

I could teach in a school which had poor results, or a poor CVA.

(Though I agree with you that these things can take a toll on your health, and I would only tolerate it as long as it didn't screw up my own life)

I could not remain in a school where the leadership did nothing about bullying. I think I would disagree so fundamentally with the values of the school that I could not support such a regime.

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But you can only change from within. I worked in a school where underachievement was rife and children had little incentive to achieve. I stayed worked hard and became part of the management and changed things, although I left those changes are still in place.

"There are also a huge number of excellent schools where bullying is not tolerated."

May I ask what is done about it when it happeneds? That is my point, when it does happened, there is nothing that is "allowed" to be done

"As twinset says, bullying can never be totally eradicated because sadly some people are bullies, but that's not a problem with school per se. Bullying can happen anywhere - in the workplace, and probably most of all within the family"

100% in agreement, it is not the schools fault if they have children who come in who are likely to be bullying other children, they do not know whats going to happened when they accept a new child onto their role, same with a staff member, in the interview process and once chosen, you do not know what that employee is going to be like, and whether they will bully others-as has happened to me in the workplace in the past.

I would just like to know, what these "good schools" are doing to not tolerate bullying or to attempt to eradicate it, because IME of both schools I have personally taught at in England, as well as family members located throughout the country who are also teachers, as well as friends who ironically are all mostly teachers, all have the same complaint, 'there is no discipline allowed to happened'. One only needs to go onto a message board of teachers such as the TES ones, where it is the same thing over and over again, teachers are the ones who have to accept children being rude, disrespectful, aggressive etc etc, because of the intensive lack of discipline. -note I have not said that your child is like this in any sense of the word, I am just stating that it would be very difficult to find a teacher who has not had to deal with this in their classroom.
It is amazing to hear some of the things some 6 years old say to adults, because they have not been taught to have any respect (please note, I have said some, not all 6 year olds, I am just using this as an example)

I work in a 'good' school where there is little bullying. I think it's to do with stopping things where they start. Name-calling the first time elicits a talking to and an apology. The second time a playtime in. Playtimes in are always reported to parents. A repeat offence would mean starting the bullying policy (since bullying means repeated incidents).

Violence always receives a playtime sanction. Again, parents are always informed. We rarely have occasions when matters go beyond these two scenarios.

All this is backed up with rigorous circle time work, learning mentor time for groups/individuals who are falling out, anti-bullying weeks to promote policies etc and form whole school anti-bullying holding hands rings around playground (including parents), poetry/poster competitions, etc.

We work v hard at it. It works.

To answer the OP, yes, I would. But only as a reactive rather than a proactive measure. So not because I think it is the best way of doing things, but because it would be better than the alternative. At the moment, my children are thriving at a fab school. That is my optimum situation.

The thing with the TES boards is that people post when it goes wrong rather than right and this gives the wrong impression. I use the TES board to discuss teaching ideas but even when working in a very difficult school I never used it to winge about discipline. I am a very positive person in my teaching who learns from her mistakes and moves on rather than dwelling on things. Infact if you search my posts on here you might see the odd winge about my workload but only from memory one groan about the kids.

I teach in a school that picks and chooses its staff, it is competitive to get a job there and that has a knock on effect on discipline. We are all on the whole very good teachers with good classroom management, there are a few weak links but because they are few in number they can be supported.

We have a strong house system that deals with bullying, the older kids look out for the little ones. When I found out someone was bullying in my tutor group they were seen as the lowest of the low, they had no street cred and it was stopped. Because of strong parental support I was able to phone home immediatly and have parents in straight away. We isolate or exclude children who are caught bullying.

We have a no nonsense approach to small issues such as uniform, using the right stairs, not carrying bags and this creates an ordered environment on which the staff are on control not the children.

We have a lot of space so kids do not have to be together if they do not want to. There is a strong staff presence around the school at breaks and lunch, in my previous school staff would hide in the staffroom. I am out on the corridors at the start and end of every lesson, at the start and end of the day and every lunch and break. When I have a free I have my door open so I can intervene or assist if I am needed.

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Feenie, so what happens when the playtimes in do not work, we use this tactic as well, but have come to find that there are children who do not want to go out for play for one reason or another, so they are purposely behaving badly in order to be given that consequence, so in many ways it turns into a reward instead. Definately key to nip things in the bud, or stop things where they start as you said, but this is not always a realistic option. Many times you may be dealing with a shy child who has not alerted you to whats been going on until it has blown up into a much bigger picture.

twinset, you mentioned a no nonsense approach to uniforms, so what happeneds when they do not wear a uniform, or are missing part of it? I found out last month that wearing a uniform is actually not statutory, therefore if a pupil turns up in missing parts of a uniform, or no uniform at all, you cannot do anything about it.

"Because of strong parental support I was able to phone home immediatly and have parents in straight away. We isolate or exclude children who are caught bullying"
Thats great if you have parental support, but what happeneds when you don't? I have a situation in class at the moment where I know for a fact (because I have been observing him when he does not know I am there) that a boy (6yrs) who is going home and saying he is being bullied is in fact in the bullier(sp?) himself, but the parents have come to the Head in a rage saying how dare we allow this to happened. twinset, would I be correct to assume that you teach secondary school age?

Its unfortunate, because the majority of children come to school, want to be there, enjoy learning, parents are supportive, but there is always a group where this is not the case, so I am just basically saying, these are all great things to do as consequences if they work, but what happens when they don't? You are not left with a lot of options of consequences, which is where my point of lack of discipline from a state level downwards come in.

They do work! No-one in their right mind would prefer to sit outside the Head's office and write lines.

'Many times you may be dealing with a shy child who has not alerted you to whats been going on until it has blown up into a much bigger picture.' I can't actually see it ever happening, never mind 'many' times. There are so many adults on duty at playtime, for one thing. Children are always in a larger group, so even if one child tried it on, there would be five or six dobbing him/her in. Also, the children take bullying so seriously that they just wouldn't tolerate it.

We do have some unsupportive parents, but in those cases we put in extra sessions with the learning mentor/play therapist to get to the bottom of it with the offending child, and isolate them at playtimes if they reoffend. Like I said, playtimes in are in no way a popular option at our school.

Lots of schools manage-but it has to be a whole school approach.
My DSs go to a state comprehensive, the only time one was bullied it was sorted out immediately and the bully's parents phoned. I was phoned and told about it before he even got home. If they come in the 'wrong' uniform they work in isolation, if they disrupt class they work in isolation.
I supply teach so I go to a lot of primary schools. I don't go back if I don't like them.I went to 2 schools last week and had delightful children-some a bit lively (fine by me)but they were friendly and keen to learn.
You can't generalise.

No it was a reply to whoever it was that said they would not want to work in a school that was in their opinion doing things wrong - have scrolled up violenthill.

I do appreciate that people have their limits, working and in some ways fighting against my previous school was responsible for my breakdown. I know for the years I was there I put my work ahead of my dd. I dont want to do that anymore and I now work in a very different kind of school. I still work hard and am still part of a system that is trying to improve education for the average child, that fits in with my politics but is not right for everyone. Teachers need to be realistic about the kind of school they want to work in and are capable of working in.

I teach secondary if pupils are not in correct unform they are put in isolation, they tend to turn up th next day in correct uniform. Our parents on the whole support us in this as they recognise why we are strict on things like that.

I have worked in schools where there is very little parental suppport and to be honest it is a nightmare. Lack of parental support is a much more of a hindrance to schools than any government interference. I have had parents screaming down the phone at me after their son has attacked me in a classroom. I have known parents thump teachers, even a head teacher. I have had to request that parents be banned from even stepping foot inside of a school. But in order for a lack of parental support to be seriously disruptive it needs to be quite common within that school, most schools do not have that problem.

Having said that it is hard to know which comes first, the failing school or lack of support. I would have found it hard to be supportive as a parent of a school which is out of control. The parents at my new school are supportive because they recognise we are doing a good job.

On the odd occasion where we don't get support we suggest the child finds another school. It rarely gets this fair as parents know we run a good school and they wanto to stay with us.

At every parents evening i have had this year parents have welcomed me into their community and told me how lucky I am like them to be part of a very special school.

"'Many times you may be dealing with a shy child who has not alerted you to whats been going on until it has blown up into a much bigger picture.' I can't actually see it ever happening, never mind 'many' times."

In the schools I have both worked in, and others I know personally who are teachers, this is often the case, definately not always, but sadly, often. I had this situation last month where a girl in my class had been bullied for 5 months, and because it was done very under handedly, and she had not told anyone outright, noone knew, until she had a major meltdown and told someone. She is a very shy and quiet child.

"They do work! No-one in their right mind would prefer to sit outside the Head's office and write lines"
Unfortunately they do not always work, as mentioned in my previous post, I know of children who purposely misbehave to avoid going outside, so this is not a realistic consequence for them.

"We do have some unsupportive parents, but in those cases we put in extra sessions with the learning mentor/play therapist to get to the bottom of it with the offending child"
This is a fantastic option, if you have it. In the three boroughs I have worked for, this has never been an option, in my current borough, we have one speech and language therapist to handle ALL the schools, so it shows that this is obviously not the case to have these luxuries available. Note, I am not saying that a learning mentor/play therapist is the same as an S and L therapist, just using it as a comparison.

twinset..it sounds like we may have worked in the same LEA! I too have had many experiences the same as you have posted. I have been punched in the face by a parent, had chairs thrown across the classroom at me by a 8 year old pupil, been biten, scratched, kicked and punched by a pupil. This is another of my points on discipline, nothing that was worthwhile was done about this, even after having involved the police, still nothing was done. Said child who did this to me, was excluded for one day, came back to school and proceeded to do the exact same thing again. This was the case at a inner city London school I taught at for two years. It was the worst two years of my life, and I finally came to my senses to get out of the situation, and left the school. I went to another school which was a great school, high results, great staff, supportive management, but still we had children who were doing the same thing, and still it was the same outcome, what can be done about it to stop it from happening?

Melissa, you asked me to specifically comment on my school, so I did. Playtimes do work at our school because of the reasons I described.

Could I ask politely that you learn how to spell 'definitely', if you are going to use it almost daily? Only your version makes my eyes hurt

was that me Feenie? I can spell it is my typing that is crap. I think most pedantics know that people can spell and that typing in a rush is the issue tbh.

Yes, and I would have done from 6 years ago if we hadn't found the best school in the world instead. They are 11, 13 and 15 now, and back then at 6, 8 and 10, only the 8 yr old was anything like happy at school. The first three years of my other two children's schooling were truly horrible for them.

"Melissa, you asked me to specifically comment on my school, so I did"

feenie, I did not ask you to comment on your school, I asked you what happens when the playtimes in do not work, what then, what are you left with?

twinset...more than likely the comment was directed towards me. feenie has dubbed herself as the mumsnet spell checker, you'll get used to it! Its funny how she never picks up on her spelling mistakes though!!

Perhaps not that it matters, my spelling does always look awful on here and because I am a teacher I do get picked up on it all the time by the pedantics.

Please can someone tell me why a child would need to know 'integral (?) and something calculus (?)'? I certainly have never been taught it and seem to have survived perfectly well!

Actually, you did ask for comments from specific schools:

By melissa75 Sun 01-Mar-09 12:35:29
""There are also a huge number of excellent schools where bullying is not tolerated."

May I ask what is done about it when it happeneds?"

and here:
By melissa75 Sun 01-Mar-09 12:35:29
"I would just like to know, what these "good schools" are doing to not tolerate bullying or to attempt to eradicate it,"

Great to see you are your usual civil self, Melissa. I tried to have an adult debate with you about spelling, once, yes. I do make typos sometimes. Typing 'definately' repeatedly isn't a typo, and I did ask you politely, after all.

How's the 13 year teaching career coming along? Any more career breaks for au pairing you'd care to mention?

OMG at being punched in the face by a parent!