I am happy with my children's state education but every so often I find myself talking to a 'private education' parent and just feel totally stressed

[Twiglett]

that there is no way my children can have the same quality and range of education and range of experiences and access to extra-curricular activities

poo-bum willy-faced bollox

Christie you could start up a consultancy helping others to become excellent SN teachers too. Running workshops you'd prob be charging out yourself at around £400-500 a day.

Some people that do that (run workshops) aren't brilliant at what they do - I've been on enough training days which weren't all that to know that. But they want more - either more money or to get their ideas out because they believe so strongly that their way is the right way.

I agree, great post Cory. You choose you own path in life, that is for sure. I could have done so much more career wise but I choose not to, I only ever wanted to be a mum. Might sound sad to a lot of people but that is my decision. I never ever was interested in studying or going to Uni although I could have easily done so. Sending me to private school most certainly would not have changed how I felt!

Xenia - I am both shocked a little insulted by this comment:

'And is the reason we grew up only miles apart but I presumably earn more because my parents made sacrifices to send me to a private school'

You have no idea whatsoever of the sacrifices made by anyone's family at all. My mother used to go without dinner regularly so that she had the money to send us to dancing lessons. We had no car. We rarely had a holiday. I dread to think what they sacrificed to send myself and one of my sisters to university.

I would love to know of the 'sacrifices' made by yours. I really do wish that you would think before typing sometimes. If I had the energy today, I would have written a much more harsh reply.

Popsycal - I don't think Xenia thinks out of the box, she doesn't realise that not all parents number 1 priority is to fork out £100,000 per child to put them through private school - just to do the same as they would had they sent them to a decent State School.

Obviously those "sacrifices" came as easy to Xenia's parents as earning £100k a year is as easy to her.

I know. I just gets my goat a little with flippant throw away comments like that. There are so many people struggling to make ends meet. Way way way worse off than we are - and we are tightening our belts. We havent had a holiday for 5 years. And we earn reasonable money compared to my parents (though I work part-time).

Anyway.
Perception is reality

I was speculating on why I earn what I do and why someone who grew up near me didn't. I wasn't really providing the answer but the fact I went to a private school did help and parents not quite sure whether to or not this thread, if they can, perhaps should consider it so their own children don't have the same problems in their 30s in not being able to afford to educate their children as they wish they could.

My father was an NHS doctor so obviously wasn't poor although it was tough in the 60s and 70s, taxes were high, 3 day week, inflation and they certainly never had any kind of holiday at all ever until I was at least 10 years old.

Anyway one way to improve people's lot is to think of ideas to make more money, surely. So the suggestion a special needs teacher could offer work shops to other SN teachers is a good idea. I marked exam papers at one point. My sister did an extra cleaning job for more money. You just to keep thinking of ideas and keep at it even if you fail and then eventually something may come good.

The person with the marriage v socialist principles issue who had gone to habs and NLCS, my children's schools - I just can't understand that - why anyone for political reasons is damaging their children deliberately because of some stupid principle which is wrong anyway. You benefit the poor by paying fees anyway as you spare the state the cost.

I may have misinterpreted the tone of your post then. However, I still disagree with the sentiment behind it.

I mostly funded myself through uni and my PGCE. I worked all through uni and through every summer. I took a gap year and worked at a well paid job so that my parents would not have to take considerable loans out to allow me to go. I got a first class degree and a professional qualification. I worked extremely hard and was promoted to a management position in less than 3 years. I tutored, marked exam papers, ran summer schools, worked for a home education company writing schemes of work, marking and consulting on current primary teaching and principles.

My father worked in the ship yards and my mother was a school cleaner. I think I have done pretty well considering my parents clearly made no sacrifices for me.....

Sorry Twiglett - this does not belong on this thread and I need to rise above it. Just caught me on a bad day and it has hit a raw nerve.

And breathe......!

Oh yes - and I set up my own small business too.

These things pay the bills - but clearly not private education ones!

I don't want to start my own business. I am happy being a journalist, and I'm rather good at it too. My daughters get the role model of a mother who is fulfilled and happy and can show them that. I am not going to earn huge amounts of money. I genuinely don't care.

Agree MI.

I need to chill. And do some work!

My state school education, by the way, enabled me to get a scholarship to Oxford at the age of 17 - beating a lot of people who'd gone to posher schools. I could very easily have gone into a high-earning job from university. I like what I do.

Lol MI
I had a place at Cambridge but turned it down to study nearer home as I had a very ill family member at that point.

If people are happy that's fine. If they wish they earned enough to pay school fees then I'm just saying try to do that rather than just bemoan it.

Obviously pops has done very well. My mother was similar - very poor background, worked very hard, became a teacher, married a doctor, children at private schools. You can see the ascent through the last few generations (if ascent is the right word or descent if you think money is bad).

I'm not just happy; I'm professionally fulfilled. I think that is a crucial role model for my daughters.

I don't really understand what the problem is for those of you who are happy in what you do and the amount of money you earn. The theory is that, if you wanted to, you could use your skills to make more money by branching out.

I could prob earn more, do better than I do. But I love my low-paid, term-time job. Half of it is The Best and Most Fulfilling Job I have EVER had and I've worked jobs ranging from scraping dirty plates in a Woolies caff to the very plush offices at the UKHO of a British bank.

If I needed to though I could at least double my income quite quickly but at the expense of my family life. That option is important though as DH is freelance and things have been a little rocky over the past few years but if he were here to look after DD, I wouldn't need to be as much.

My DCs have been educated in both state and independent schools and my only problem with the state education they have received has been related to the shortage of teachers in some subjects (maths and science particularly) whereas the independent schools have been able to pay over the odds to get these rare souls. DS is leaving today on a 3 week trip to S Africa organised through his state secondary. Their state schools have offered trips and other extras all through their time there and these have been broadly similar to what has been on offer at the independents.
You can get a good education and experience at a state school and it is not necessary to be a corporate lawyer to pay for many of these!

Oh, and I do think the argument that I should make lots of sacrifices and put earning enough money to send my children to private school above any personal or professional fufilment/ambition is far, far worse than the idea of chucking in paid work altogether, in feminist terms. Surely my girls need to know that the life of an adult woman does not entail constant self-sacrifice, eh?

If I'd stayed at work my children could be in private prep school now, let alone private secondary.

But we wouldn't be 'happy'.

That's my own compromise. We make the family we want. I want a family that has a parent (me actually not 'a' parent, but me, the mother) at home when the children get in from school.

Works for us.

Until I chitter-chat to a private education mum at a low moment.

Anyhoo my state educated firstborn did Hamlet on stage at The Globe in Reception

motherinferior - In reality I think the job of a parent does mean constant self sacrifice. I feel that's a responsible message to pass down to my children, don't have children until you are ready to put yourself second.

Lol twig. Our 'sacrifice' is that I work part-time for the sanity of our family. Life would be very different chez popsy if we both worked full time. And definitely not better.

But anyway. Two more work days for me. Then six weeks 'holiday' then 9 months maternity leave. Interpret how you will

I fully take your point, Swedes - heaven knows, I find parenthood draining enough - but I also don't want to sacrifice my entire happiness and wellbeing to my children. In my case that does involve staying in paid work: but it also means not working in jobs which would pay more but in which I would be constantly unhappy.

I realise that I'm privileged, in that I can and do earn a decent amount doing something I enjoy. I'd like my daughters to be equally privileged.

The issue of self sacrifice and parenthood is a really interesting one. In some sensese I've worn a hair shirt for 23 (nearly 24) years in the sense that I've been a mother all that time and like most parents put myself second every day. But certainly far too many women become martyrs whether they work or don't because that just seems to be their nature- moaning all the time but not effecting change whether that's moaning about having to work full time or moaning about what they gave up in career and money terms to devote themselves to the children at home.

I think women who work in jobs they enjoy are better role models for daughters than housewives.

I agree Christie. To be able to 'branch out' and possibly earn more money, you would have to cut back to part time, which is a big risk which many people cannot afford to take. I respect the fact that Xenia has a lot of drive, and has worked hard to achieve her ambitions. But although some of her principles are sound, she's way off mark in the detail. It just isn't possible (or even desirable) for everyone to earn huge bucks. Xenia must depend, in her day to day life, on all sorts of people who aren't earning enough for private school fees. And anyway, a private school education is no guarantee of personal happiness, ability to form and sustain good relationships etc. I'm sure we can all point to people from top private schools who aren't necessarily fulfilled and happy. I do think Xenia has a point though when it comes to SAHMS who are bored, unfulfilled etc - a lot of women can lose their drive and end up with low self esteem, wanting change but not being proactive in effecting change.The other thing that you need to factor into this is that Xenia has quite a strong desire for her children to remain within a similar culture/lifestyle to hers. She's been quite upfront about this in several posts. Her children being privately educated at a top school is important for her because she feels that was a huge factor in her own personal success. Which is fine - I'm not knocking that. But it's not true for all of us. I genuinely do not mind whether my children choose to go into a well paid profession, or whether they live in penury as writers and artists!! Honestly. I do want them to have choice, and thankfully my children are all pretty bright and motivated (at the moment). Obviously the message children get from home is very important in terms of motivation. And the reason DH and I both work is because we think it's hugely important for our children to see their mother and father in successful, fulfulling roles both within and outside the home. But as for what our children decide to do with their lives - that's their decision. They are their own people, and other than providing role models, guiding them to treat others with respect, value learning for its own sake, etc etc, I really don't want to feel that I am moulding them into something that I want.