I am happy with my children's state education but every so often I find myself talking to a 'private education' parent and just feel totally stressed

[Twiglett]

that there is no way my children can have the same quality and range of education and range of experiences and access to extra-curricular activities

poo-bum willy-faced bollox

Jajas, what a wonderful way to spend your Saturday! You should have gone inside to use his toilet and wiped your arse on his face towel.

Private eduactation can be a blessing or a curse, I grew up in Oxford so knew a few private school kids, some did well, but the less academic or motivated really have suffered. They feel that they haven't lived up to the expectations that were placed on them and though have pretty OK jobs feel as if they have been failures,

whereas the kids at my school who have similar jobs are happy,

depends on the kid and the school but the majority of it is if your parents care it will be alright in the end...

I am dreaded sending my lot of to the innercity high school eduation system I am stuck with but hope that with our guidance they will be OK!

I feel a bit the same when I hear about the marvellous trips and extra curricular activities that DD1's best friend gets at her independent school.

Then I remember the day she came to us for tea just after a day out in London to the National Gallery. Her account of the day: "We spent ages on the bus and the pictures were really boring."

DD1 has come home much more enthused about art as a result of one assembly at her bog-standard state infant school, where they were shown some modern art by an enthusiastic teacher. And they didn't have to spend several hours on a bus to do it.

That's the problem Smithagain, it is us who are envious of the "great" activities/trips etc they provide BUT the children aren't bothered in the slightest! They won't be worse off in life for not going skiing to Aspen in Year 5.

You can't really generalise. Most children are in state schools (94%). The 6% in private schools do tend to do better in life for lots of different reasons including the schooling and 50% of parents including labour voters would pay if they could afford it which probably says it all really.

But there's no point in spending life being jealous of other people. Someone else will always be better off, prettier or whatever. Either change things or accept them.

I certainly didn't pay school fees for special school trips. I mostly paid because I wanted the children in one of the top 10 or 20 day schools in the country educated in a nice physical environnment as an all round person with lots of hobbies and their talents of whatever kind fully developed and able to thrive in a class with other children in very very academically selective schools.

Oh Xenia - you speak sense at times but I love this quote:

What is to stop you starting your own business and earning £100k a year to spend on school fees?

We grew up only miles apart but it could be a different world!!!

Yes nepotism rules! Oh and money of course, money rules too!

Thank you for reminding me of reasons why I am happy for my children to continue in their state schooling .. no, I mean it.

And Twig, MI, etc
I feel twitchy about it at times too. My aunty (who I believe is a bit of a Hyancinth Bucket....) suggested why didnt I try to get a scholarship at a local private school for ds1 when he was older. I felt a horrible mixture of shock/inadequacy/militant working-class-ness/crap mum-ness/crap teacher-ness etc etc all at once.

And it still plays on my mind....

I've had private school pangs recently too - my 3 best friends all have their kids in private schools and my old private girls' school just sent its annual newsletter out with pictures of the fabby new facilities which made dh and I go 'aaah'. It's not envy - we have made a positive decision to state educate at this point - but it does make us question a little.

But I remember the pressure, both academic and social, of my school, and I see how much school dominates the lives of my friends' families in a way that it doesn't dominate ours, and I don't want that for my primary age children. DS is in a lovely school, and it's part of the community we live in - it's involved in all the local events and ds' friends live five minutes walk away. That's more important - to me anyway, having been privately educated from the age of 5, so I do know what I'm talking about! - than having a swimming pool or slightly smaller classes.

ds1 has had an amazing teacher this year and I am very pro state school and teach in one myself!

But I still have the odd silent pang

I have exactly the same pangs, particularly as all my nieces and nephews are at private school. My mum feels my boys are the poor disadvantaged ones.
For us it wasn't so much about money (though clearly we would rather not spend it) as a positive decision to embrace our excellent local school.
I spend every Friday afternoon with friends who have boys the same age as DS2 at a local pre-prep and have watched them go through the horrors of London prep school 7+ exams. I've been alternately horrified that these poor little boys are going through all this pressure when they are still babies, and (yes, I admit it) jealous that their DSs will be going next year to one of the most prestigious schools in the country, with fab facilities. I'm pretty certain that if DS2 had gone to their pre-prep he'd be going there too. But then they will have mountains of homework next year, and he won't.

popyscal - that too made me laugh about starting own business up - in the nicest possible way!

The old quote of '50% of parents would pay if they could afford it' is a red herring.
If you did a poll among the general population and asked 'Would you rather someone gave you a Ford Focus or a Porsche' I expect more than 50% of people would opt for the Porsche. People assume that if something costs more, it must be 'better'. A Porsche may cost more and look more flashy, but it's not going to turn you into a happier, better, or more successful person. And at the end of the day, a Ford Focus will get you where you want to go!

"We grew up only miles apart but it could be a different world!!! "

And is the reason we grew up only miles apart but I presumably earn more because my parents made sacrifices to send me to a private school which has enabled me to earn enough to send my children to one? I don't know but it's interesting. We have had children at private schools now for 20 years so I know a lot of those schools and my children's father has taught in both sectors.

Is it that the private school gives you the exam results and more importantly self confidence to found businesses that make money or pick careers that enable you to do so - my brother and sister both work in the healthcare sector but both still also afford private school fees or is it simply that I knew I wanted my children to go to those schools so I did the work and picked work that would enable that to happen or just chance or even my superior brains or even my right wing foolishness to waste money on something I pay massive amounts of tax to support for others. Or do we just want to perpetuate ourselves - don't want our children becoming too different from us whether in type of education, interests, class etc so therefore we choose either state or private depending on what and how we are.

Xenia do you credit all your success to being educated in the private system? I am sure you would have done equally as well had you been taught at a decent State School? I don't think the school can do much to change someone's drive to succeed, I can still remember the boys in school who were lentrepreneurs at 14, they used to sell things in the playground, had multiple paper rounds and they are the boys who are now successful businessmen.

I think private school can open doors as you meet more of the "elite" but other than that, I can't see how it can make you more successful.

Believe it or not, Xenia, not everyone makes decisions just based on affordability. We could afford to send our DSs to private school as DH (state school educated) has followed exactly your path and has his own lucrative business. We both previously also earned good dosh working for other people's businesses. We have chosen not to for social and political reasons.

However, we have now got to crunch time with DS1 as our local secondary school is 'inadequate' and does not fall into the category of 'good enough'. DH is going through socialist angst and is pitting our marriage against his principles - marriage, so far, is winning, but it is prickly.

By the way, I went to NLCS from 11 and my brother to Habs in Elstree, so we know of what you speak.

I think you just have to accept that you can't lead the lives of everybody around you, as well as your own. There will always be areas of life where other children seem to get more, there will be other areas where they seem to get less. The important thing is to teach our children to make the most of their opportunities, to develop into the people they want to be. There are lots of exciting possibilities in all walks of life; we don't have to compare with each other and try to denigrate each other's choices.

Naturally, every time you make a choice, you are also excluding something. Dh and I have chosen to go for our dream professions; that means our children will have to be educated in the state system and have a limited amount of money. We knew that. Our choice.

And some choices (pace Xenia) are made for us by life. It doesn't matter how much drive and ambition my dd has: her disability means that a fair few career paths will be closed to her. My job is to help her to see how the closing of one door leads to the opening of another.

There are many people for whom the starting up a successful business will not be an option, because they lack the abilities you need. If you can't cope with numbers, then running your own financial enterprise is probably a bad idea. There is little point in wasting your life lamenting that you can't do what you see other people doing- the challenge is to find what you can do and enjoy doing and do it to the very best of your ability.

pgwithnumber3 I think what you say has a lot of truth. People with a good business head will have that wherever they go. As you say, you often see it as a young age, the kids who are flogging stuff in the playground (or on ebay now I guess!)
Private schools can do certain things. They can sometimes push a kids grades up a bit, eg from C to B or B to A. Not hard, when you have small classes. And also not hard to replicate through private tuition, if you time it right with exams, and find someone good. A hell of a lot cheaper than school fees. And of course some private schools specialise in music, sport etc which may be necessary if you are intending to be a professional musician/sportsperson. Though it sits uncomfortably with me that you have to pay for this kind of education just because you have a specific talent. One outcome of the current economic situation is that more people will look closely at the difference a private school makes and if they arent getting a decent return on their money, will vote with their feet.

excellent post cory

At the end of the day what does having a private education, excellent GSCE and A Level results and a Masters Degree do for you anymore? They are thousands of students who have qualifications longer than their arm but they can't get jobs.

My brother has a superb brain, his friends are Oxbridge graduates and all surgeons, but none of them are married or have families (all in their thirties). They are workaholics. What good does that do other than work you to the ground. But they all did this by being educated by the State - not through Eton. You are what you are, IQ is not given on entering private school, you can't buy it.