DD Miserable at Oxford Uni

[MyPearlPoster]

So DD is in her first year studying history at Oxford. She has come from a very prestigious secondary in London, where she thrived and had lots of amazing close friends, some of whom are at Oxford now too. From the start she has found it all really challenging socially, calling or messaging in tears that she hasn't found her people and feels alone in her college which seems to be rather unsociable, unfriendly and 'nerdy'. Spending time with friends from home there helps, but she says everyone seems to have a core friend group within their college, where they've all found likeminded people to eat/hang out/study with - I think she feels somewhat like the odd one out for being lonely in hers. It doesn't help that her friends at other unis, many in the US, are having the time of their lives, calling with exciting stories and posting pictures of new friends - she really feels as though she is majorly falling behind. I have told her multiple times that it takes time and that she would regret leaving Oxford but it also kills me to see her so unhappy. Academically she is doing pretty well, but not thriving perhaps as she used to, and finding it difficult to concentrate and focus because of constant anxiety etc. She is speaking to a therapist and taking a low dosage of anxiety meds which have been recommended. I think part of it is the lack of structure of it all - she was used to having a big but very tight group of supportive friends who she felt very at home with, and as a family we are all very close too. With her humanities course she hardly has any contact hours and all people in her college seem to do is study...she keeps saying it's not that Oxford is wrong for her but her college specifically but there seems no chance of moving...I know people will say to get involved with extracurriculars and she does journalism which she enjoys but finds everyone there is more of a loose acquaintance network. Apart from this, she was never particularly sporty or into music and other than those activities everyone's social lives do seem to revolve around their colleges...she makes an effort with friends of friends etc but feels afloat generally and is often lonely.

Don't be silly. Are you really unaware of how Oxbridge degrees differ even from degrees at other excellent universities?

An Oxbridge graduate will have demonstrated the ability to manage a high workload and a lot of pressure and learnt how to hold their own with some of the best people in their field in a way that just is not the same at other universities.

For context, I've studied at both Oxford and another highly ranked university in the UK and the difficulty, workload and pressure was in no way comparable.

@MonGrainDeSel If you look at some of the work stats for Oxford courses , they are not great. The truth is that vast numbers of very good dc are not getting into Oxbridge and can work just as effectively and just as hard. They might also have had jobs and have demonstrated a work ethic in other meaningful ways. Increasingly employers are recruiting uni blind. Some tests will favour DC from Oxbridge but others are taking a far more rounded approach and personality, work experience and teamwork are valued as much as a passion for English or Philosophy.

Absolutely not one part of that is relevant to your extremely silly comment upthread about the old boys network and people telling you they went to Oxbridge.

Why do you think Oxbridge graduates won't have had jobs/work experience, or don't have personalities or the ability to work in teams? It is certainly true that there are far more clever DC than Oxbridge can accommodate, and being clever will certainly help those young people on their life paths. But they still won't have had the very specific and challenging education that Oxbridge and nowhere else in the country provides.

University blind recruitment is a good idea. It's great that an attempt to level the playing field is being made, particularly for those from backgrounds where they might not have full information about the differences between universities before they decide where to go. For Oxbridge graduates, they have exactly the same chances to show that they are intelligent and competent as everyone else. Great! The education they've had will have enhanced both these qualities.

@MonGrainDeSel Because it’s not a universal trait! Plenty don’t work whereas others do. Have you looked at the employment stats? It’s fairly clear some dc are totally employable but this idea that all just walk into jobs because they went to Oxford is outdated.

Many courses at Oxford have below 75% employment stats. So some undoubtedly benefit and I do believe in aiming high, but thinking you are automatically better than other dc is simply not a good way to go about employment and somewhat arrogant.

Sorry to hear she's come home tearful and is shutting down. Glad she had a good time at the ball. It is normal to be very tired at the end of an Oxford term and after a ball when they stay to 6am or so so would let her catch up on sleep initially.

If her low mood persists I would discuss changing university with her and see her thoughts. She could still put she went to Oxford on her CV and as long as she's careful how she presents it in interviews it need not be an issue. She would need to be positive in an interview, never speak badly of a past education institution or employer as they will wonder what you will say about them. I knew someone who had done this and is now earning several hundred thousand a year. He replies Oxford is a great place it just wasn't for me. I changed to x as I preferred the course but that's just me. Just knowing you have the option to change may help feel less trapped. I don't know if you would need to restart year 1 but could contact admissions places and find out. If she stays miserable that won't interview well, people who are enthusiastic, happy, full of energy and ideas do better in interviews normally. There's a risk it will be same problem different place but just looking at options may make her think it through. Let her lead on where and what and the solution. She might need a week to catch up on sleep first, its rare to make good decisions tired.

There are also plenty of undergraduates at other universities who don't work! The defining factor for this tends to be parental income rather than what university you attended. I know DC at Nottingham, Durham, Edinburgh, Bristol and Liverpool just off the top of my head who've never had a job! I don't believe that what university you attend has any major effect on personality or your aptitude for teamwork, and I also don't believe anyone is suggesting that Oxbridge graduates are automatically 'better' (I am not sure in what way you mean), just that they will have been fortunate enough to have a very specific type of very good education.

I hope nobody is telling their kids that Oxbridge means they are 'better'. I've been telling mine that it means she's going to have to work very hard and sometimes not mind turning in something that isn't perfect because it will be difficult and will take up a lot of time to do the work. And in today's job market the idea that anyone will just walk into a job is foolish at best. I know plenty of young people with good degrees from good universities who aren't doing what they hoped they'd start off doing but it's a process and the first job you have after graduating doesn't necessarily set the tone for your entire life. I've had several different careers in my decades of working life.

I haven't looked at the employment stats but I'm definitely not aware of any courses with 75%+ unemployment following graduation, definitely not 'many courses' of this type. Possibly very niche things? Please do share! I'd love to see the source of this statement.

A quick google leads me to these recent stats for Oxford which seem perfectly OK to me with 94% in work, further study or setting up a business/freelancing: https://www.careers.ox.ac.uk/article/graduate-outcomes-22-23

@OneZanyCat Oxford is a great place it just wasn't for me. I changed to x as I preferred the course but that's just me - this was me too! Not just the course but an entirely different subject.

@MeetMeOnTheCorner Basically you are just introducing pointless arguments about things nobody has said on a thread about something different entirely. I very much hope OP's daughter can find a way through this and end up happy, whatever that takes.

Also, sorry, I read too quickly and see that you are saying 75% employment stats. The stats for the university as a whole are 62% in employment because many go on to further study or start their own businesses etc.

I think second year at most universities is different from first year. Everything settles
down a bit. I would give it another year at least.

You can't change unis after two years though, you'd be stuck with it.

This thread does remind me why I stuck with Bristol even though after one year I did secure an alternative place starting year 2 at a good Greater London Uni, can't remember it quite, it was decades ago. I just bottled it, it was a case of once bitten twice shy, the devil you know etc When a good thing comes along you don't quite trust it, or think you deserve it.

It is just awful biding one's time at that age to get to the end of the line, you forget how to live in the present, you have to defer all fun. I know there's a bit of that as a student, holding off for A levels and so on, but to carry on with that to this extent.

I do have another suggestion that is problematic; if a person really isn't digging a place then they're unlikely to be getting their sex life going, or any kind of romance. Nobody seems to be mentioning this but for me this was just another reason why things didn't work for me at Bristol, the whole idea that I just didn't want to put down roots given I was just waiting to get the hell out. It almost feels like having to hold your breathe.

The daughter only 20 months left from October - it's so short!

Not having that emotional click with a new town, university, employer etc is probably the majority experience. Life's about learning to get on with it, and turning constraints into opportunities.

It took me a year, I think, to realise that university wasn't actually meant to be a reward for being a good girl at school, where you just sit back and all the fun comes to you.

It's a platform, like others, and how we use our platforms is up to us.

Occasionally, withdrawing and starting again elsewhere will indeed be the best decision - I've worked closely with cases like this.

But there are real risks and costs. These can be underestimated when people prioritise the short term.

I've also worked closely with people who felt strongly that the degree or institution wasn't for them - but ultimately stuck it out, and are now very glad that they did. They found opportunities and passions they otherwise would not have had. (Perhaps they would have found even better opportunities if they had withdrawn and switched, but very likely not!)

There's also great gratification from seeing through a challenge that has turned out to be tough. You learn your strength, and you also see and value it more in others who have had to learn endurance.

Not bad advice - I would suggest exploring alternatives anyway. I stuck it out at Bristol and regretted it, it never redeemed itself for me. But you do need to do a checklist of pros and cons and it also depends on an individual's temperament; some people can make do or be happy go lucky, others cannot. The passionate person struggles to turn what should have been a terrific opportunity into a damage limitation exercise.

It's like if you are a top scorer at the World Cup but suffer pain and hurt on behalf of any goalkeeper who fails to keep your ball out. How long would you continue in the game, making money? At what point would you think, do you know, I can't stand this, I want to quit.

Is there a way of reshaping this if she stays on - doing a little tour of satellite towns and cities around Oxford, independent of academia, little explorations or day trips? Stuff she can do not as a student but as herself.

@NewspaperTaxis How old are you? You cannot remember what alternative uni and think sex at university matters? It’s not the 60s any more!

Mid 50s - not sure what you mean, are you not supposed to have a boyfriend or girlfriend at uni these days? Actually, tbf, people did have sex at uni but it was vey rare you heard the term boyfriend or girlfriend, it was almost as if it were a bit common.

@NewspaperTaxis You implied sex life was something successful people did at university. Fewer dc meet their partners at university now and want to look around afterwards with career first. Look at the ages people now get married. It used to be straight after uni, not now. I think uni isn’t seen as a mating ground any more.

@MeetMeOnTheCorner both my elder dd met their dh at university and most of the weddings they've been to are between people who met at university so I'd say it's still fairly common. Dd1 got married aged 29 (delayed due to covid) and dd2 aged 26 so they did wait.

Luckily people don't have to marry everybody they have sex with and many people find that having a few boyfriends before starting to think about settling down is a useful learning experience.

@Manthide That’s completely opposite of the experience of both my DDs. DD1 has been to in excess of 35 weddings and university sweethearts weren’t a thing at all. Our neighbours DS did marry a girl from uni but he’s very quiet and not interested in looking around. DH has loads of friends who married school friends after they went to different universities for 3 years. All divorced.

I think going to uni and thinking sex matters is a bit retro though. You don’t judge your experience at uni by sex on offer do you?

@MeetMeOnTheCorner I went to university in the mid 80s and never had sex with anybody - had a great time though! Dd3 is hoping to go to university this year and has been at an all girls school for the past 7 years. Hope she doesn't go wild.

I think we're coming at this from slightly different angles and admit that maybe when talking about a DD one doesn't want to think about sex as an option or think about it. Then again I am not sure it's the consensus among 18 year olds that it's just dandy to go to uni and not experience sex for those three years. I wasn't talking about finding a marriage partner as such, or going wild either, just saying that if the life generally isn't that enjoyable there then it is quite likely everything sort of gets put on hold. Or, in a negative context there lurks the possibility for crushes to develop, or some kind of emotional constipation. Each to their own, I suppose.

I went to Cambridge and this is just some advice 1) join things. a lot of university wide will end up being acquaintances unless sports or travel together, but if she joins things in college she will do better - so join the boat club if she isn't that sporty. or just try new things - history society etc. 2) socialise - she needs to just get over preconceptions, step out her comfort zone and try chatting to new people. If she comes across as unfriendly as she is anxious, that won't really help. A huge thing at university is actually realising you are all the same, whether state, grammar etc. I would get her out of her normal circle over summer. 3) get her off the anxiety meds as one side effect is depression.

I went through uni and made lots of acquaintance friends, but my closest friends ended up being the ones from home. I would say it's a 50:50 split - didn't stop me having a great time but I felt more at ease with the more genuine friendships I had from school - and that's ok. She can't change college and the brutal thing is she needs to learn these skills now, before she hits the adult world. But if she doesn't get out there, it will end up a self-perpetuating cycle.

I read your updates. Oxbridge does a bugger on most people's mental health, so will recover while also learning really useful skills and a degree that opens doors everywhere. Try to encourage her to make use of the experience as much as possible. I read about you saying she likes to party, she probably is just unlucky with her college, but there will be people going out in college. I would strongly encourage her to look into drinking societies, cheerleading or a sociable university sport. I wouldn't encourage her to drop out, it will only add to the mental health issues. She can always go off somewhere else for a masters.

get her off the anxiety meds as one side effect is depression

This is a terrible idea. Most modern treatment for anxiety involves SSRIs or SNRIs which also deal with any depressive symptoms. They should not be stopped except under medical supervision.

@ManthideMy DDs were at Girls schools and they knew what boys were before they went! Best policy. And were savvy around them.