Well behaved kids getting overlooked in school?

[Qwerty654321]

I work for a school and I have children in school. I feel really disillusioned with the education system. I am guessing this isn’t going to be a popular post but I’m going to risk it in the hope there are others who feel the same.

More and more I noticed well behaved children who go to school every day, try their best and complete their work, are increasingly being overlooked in the school system. Resource, training, praise, incentives are now all aimed at those who aren’t these children.

Children who are perceived to be well behaved and doing well are presumed to be ok. They don’t get the 1:1 conversations, rewards or attention that the others do. It really breaks my heart. I think a lot of these children don’t thrive as much as they could because so little focus is put on them.

I know that I am supposed to feel guilty for having these feelings but I don’t. I want the best for my children too.

can anyone relate?

My Eldest is nearly 30. It has been that way since he was at primary. It’s due to the need for crowd control at school.

Yes, unfortunately I can and I agree.

Also work in a school and have a well-behaved child in school. Completely agree. We make sure that we pay lots of attention to what she's doing, lots of recognition of hard work at home as well etc.

This has always been the case.

My dd works hard and it upsets her how she never gets any recognition from school because she's an easy pupil. Her teachers praise her highly in parents evening but as she's not at the very top and behaves well she never gets recognised for it. It's better now she's older and she's asked to really get involved in school life as she's reliable so she's the one asked to demonstrate things on parent's evening or play in a sports match. The music and pe department love her. Still no certificates but being asked to get involved has helped.

I was a good kid in school 60 years ago. Same thing and for mine 30 years ago. That’s why people pay private if they can

I have one ‘well behaved child’ (no disability, happy, sociable, thriving) and one autistic child who can really, really struggle at school and with friendships. The non disabled one does sometimes moan about things like this but she wouldn’t swap with her sister for a certificate or extra 1:1 time. It’s why we should care more about the atrocious SEN system - more funding and support should be available so they all (non SEN too) can receive the attention they deserve but it’s just not there.

To be fair I’d rather my child learnt to behave because they have standards and know the difference between right and wrong rather than to get rewarded or recognition. Some people need more input to teach how to behave- my kids don’t. And intrinsic motivation to work hard and be good is more important anyway to me to teach my kids. They don’t need gold stars.

Yes, its been that way for years now. I've worked in several schools & seen so many reward schemes that excluded well behaved kids who were just getting on with it.
From poor attendance pupils getting a disco party on Friday afternoons if they'd been at school all week to really badly behaved kids getting handshakes & jokes with the (admittedly stupid) headteacher for having a good half day.
There'll be around 25% in each class that are overlooked. It's completely wrong but with every TA taken up with SEN & ESL support plus completely overworked teachers I can't see how it can change now.

Yes, education in the UK is a cess pit, sorry. Taught there for several years and enjoyed the teaching and the kids, colleagues etc but my mind was blown at the accepted terrible behaviour, the powerlessness of teachers and the, not just tolerance but, complete pandering to badly behaved kids to the detriment of the other children.

Yes it happens and it's totally avoidable with just a little thought. The usual suspects of course need encouragement and incentives. But it's so easy to also make sure every child in the class gets recognised at least once, and it's easy to find a reason with the quiet well behaved ones. Positive attitude, being helpful, remembering reading book all term - I used to keep a class list and tick off every child that has been recognised, and made sure every child got at least one assembly award.

Agree, but I'm a secondary teacher, and all my year 11 time goes on adapting my teaching, managing behaviour and/or laziness. I simply don't have time to devote to the conscientious ones.

The most annoying thing is that some pupils won't meet me halfway. I have no more adaptations up my sleeve.

Dd doesn't need gold stars but after behaving well in school for the last decade she has deserved a fair few.

It was ever thus. The DC I feel sorry for are those who are not particularly academic but well-behaved - they have neither the kudos of success in the classroom, nor the rewards and attention that come if you are a bad kid behaving slightly less badly.

It’s always been like this, that was me at school and now I have primary aged DC, it’s the thing I fear most for DC in their huge classes with over stretched teachers.

Honestly I am a secondary teacher and I feel this guilt as well, but when I have a class with 50% having a learning need and no support staff as my normal support is off for an operation, I am doing my best which I know is not good enough but I am attempting to teach 3 levels of maths in one hour, keep all students working, assisting as many as I can and manage the low level behaviour issues I have.
Then go straight into teaching my Yr 11 exam class straight after.
It really is a poor situation at the moment.

Yes absolutely feel this. My child is quiet, well behaved and good at school work (but not exceptional). They are just completely overlooked at school.

It’s a shame.

I hear what you are saying @Qwerty654321 and I know it's an issue.

Can I just say tho, that when I was a classroom teacher (secondary) I knew who the really super kids were who put in the effort and worked hard. And I really think that, while I was constantly firefighting the YP with challenging issues and those who wanted to be anywhere but in my year 8 German class, I did also praise the well behaved, hard working YP. I hope so anyway.

I am sitting here thinking of some of the students I taught who were so so lovely. Some were very able, some less so but really tried their best. I really really hope they knew how much I appreciated their efforts.

I’m a teacher and parent. I’ve got two of those children that are really quiet, as well as being well-behaved, so they are largely ignored at secondary school. I’ve lost count of the number of parents evenings I’ve had where the teacher clearly has no idea who my child is. They’re doing pretty well academically, but they have never had so much as a sticker in 5 years of secondary school, and I do think it’s affected their self-esteem. One of them said he was ‘insignificant’ at school, which broke my heart a bit.

I totally get a PPs point, and I understand that being the parent of a SEN child is really hard, and there is not enough support at school so their needs go largely unmet, and probably with bigger consequences. But it’s a really sad situation where any child is ignored day in day out at school and not ever recognised for any of their qualities.

I’ve lost count of the number of parents evenings I’ve had where the teacher clearly has no idea who my child is.

That's beyond poor @Timesquaredy. When I taught secondary I had no TLR so I taught 23 lessons a week, and had sometimes as many as 12 groups, maybe 300+ students I worked with in a week. I recall one year I taught six out of the nine year 7 classes. But I still knew who they were when their parents came to parents' evening. Not to know who a child is you see twice a week is unacceptable. I am sorry that was the case.

At primary yes! This was my DD’s experience.

Happy to report a much better experience at secondary school where she has strong positive relationships with many of her teachers who love the fact that she quietly attentive in class and tries hard in all her subjects. Her teachers have done a good job of building her up to participate more actively and make her own contributions to class conversation. She is now articulate, warm and funny, mature and I would say ready for the world of work.

Yes I completely understand and I also work in a school, so often I would get upset when I saw children overlooked. However, if you think about it- the children who don’t get in trouble, who do their homework, who aren’t late/constantly absent- they’re already at such an advantage, they already often have parents who are supporting them, a steady home life, enough food, clean and cosy homes! They are more likely to achieve/ succeed and ultimately become successful adults. So if there’s a child at a disadvantage, why not give them the praise/ prize, this disadvantage is likely to last a lot longer than school. Perhaps they just need the praise or whatever it is more than the more advantaged children.

Is it really a wonder why children who need more attention to get the basics, get more attention?
What do you think would happen in schools if those children didn't get the extra support? (It's already happening in many thanks to budgets)

Children who are well-behaved, kind, hardworking etc. tend to have interested and devoted parents that support them. They get the love and attention they need for necessary childhood development from home.

Children who are not well-behaved, hardworking etc. tend to either have disinterested parents or needs that require more love, support and attention than an average child. They need all the extra they can get from school to support necessary childhood development.

Unsurprisingly, 1 adult cannot give 30 children individual attention. Would you rather they dish out equally so everyone gets the same but the classroom descends into chaos? Or equitably so that every child is treated as an individual and benefits from a calm and well-managed classroom?

This "it's not fair!" And "if she has it, I want it!" Attitude has been prevalent on MN for a while, see all the motability threads of late. Count your blessings your child doesn't have a learning need and hasn't already got the odds stacked against them rather than moaning about a paper certificate.

Absolutely. There was a house points system at my kids school, and of course those well behaved kids rarely got points, but those disruptive kids did if they behaved for a class or turned in their homework on time! Yes you want to reward and encourage those who might struggle a bit but also the ones who show up on time, homework done neatly and always behave! My DD also had the hated experience of regularly being told to sit between two boys who were always fooling around! No wonder she insisted on an all girls school at 16.

I think all teachers try really hard to avoid this. At my school we have a ‘star of the week’ type system and mine has always been a genuine mix of those quiet, keeping-their-head-down types and the children who struggle with behaviour and desperately need a boost types. And every child gets recognition across the year.
The children with SEN do get ‘extra’ things when it comes to reasonable adjustments but my class do understand that not everyone can be treated the same and that some children need more support than others.
I hope parents see how hard I work to make sure that every child gets the recognition they deserve but I just don’t know. They may see that some parents monopolise me more than others at hometime but I can’t really avoid that - some are just very proactive at coming over and chatting and I can’t really stop them!