Well behaved kids getting overlooked in school?

[Qwerty654321]

I work for a school and I have children in school. I feel really disillusioned with the education system. I am guessing this isn’t going to be a popular post but I’m going to risk it in the hope there are others who feel the same.

More and more I noticed well behaved children who go to school every day, try their best and complete their work, are increasingly being overlooked in the school system. Resource, training, praise, incentives are now all aimed at those who aren’t these children.

Children who are perceived to be well behaved and doing well are presumed to be ok. They don’t get the 1:1 conversations, rewards or attention that the others do. It really breaks my heart. I think a lot of these children don’t thrive as much as they could because so little focus is put on them.

I know that I am supposed to feel guilty for having these feelings but I don’t. I want the best for my children too.

can anyone relate?

“We are lucky in that we have the resources to support DD out of school, but I feel angry on behalf of the bright and diligent pupils whose parents are less well equipped.”

Realistically, how many of these kids are there? Most of the kids doing well are properly supported and properly parented.
No kid growing up in a chaotic household, not fed healthy food nor exercised, not read to at home stands much of a chance. However much the schools try. And now with being dumped on screens as well, it is a lose lose. Unless the parents are involved and educationally motivated, the kids do not do well. It is virtually impossible. There are so many things that have to come together for a child to succeed academically.

Do your schools not keep a list of who has got an award? That seems so easily fixed. At my DS' everyone gets the Friday award at least once a term.

On the understanding why some children have different rules, the kids were just told exactly why. I can remember DS solemnly telling me that Evie didn't sit on her spot at story time because her brain works differently and so she can't. He seems to accept it as easily as he accepts that Freddie can use the loos upstairs (which the other kids aren't allowed to) as it takes him ages to get down the lift in his wheelchair. It's a school with a special unit in it and so they have lots of children with different needs.

My kids might not have needed recognition for not being violent but a well done for things that they find difficult or nice things they’ve done that haven’t been noticed would have meant the world to them at primary age as they wanted the teacher to like them as as much as they liked the teacher. By things they find difficult or are nice but not noticed- it could be anything from taking care with handwriting or passing out pencils to the rest of the table before taking their own. The well behaved kids would roll their eyes at a “well done for not hurting your classmates”.

In a class of 30, I understand why the loudest get the most attention but there are quiet kids who are struggling and need boosting too. Primary school teachers have the power to really boost a child’s self esteem and it’s a shame that some never get boosting. The kids who don’t even get a star of the week during a school year are being failed. Everybody should get it at least once.

My daughter has a stack of postcards sent home for good behaviour, being kind/polite etc, my son goes to the same school, and actually has more positive points than her- and he has one postcard, but because he is “normal” and daughter is autistic they get treated differently, im proud of my daughter obviously but also feel sad for my son as he is obviously well behaved for having so many positive points but doesn’t get the recognition of a postcard sent home xx

I really feel schools can't win here.

Parents complaining here about individual support for children.

Equity is making up the gaps ( see photo in my first post).
If the ‘gaps’ are not closed (working to address the needs of the individual child), then often these children disrupt.

Then parents complain about the disruptive child!

Adding the photo again.

I thought the equity/equality concept cartoon was a pretty standard 'non-negotiable' in September INSETs. It is worrying if people who work in schools don't get it.

The problems with the 'equity' approach is that you are assuming that a quiet child with no obvious needs has a supportive homelife with caring parents. They might be quiet because they are chronically neglected and know that asking for help at home gets them nothing- or worse, they are too scared to act out at school due to abuse at home.
They might have undiagnosed learning needs that the teacher hasn't noticed because they seem fine.
Or they might be very shy, or being bullied at school -

You also assume that extra attention and praise make a difference to the outcomes for disruptive children and those with significant learning difficulties. Is there any evidence to back up that assumption? Behaviour in Scottish schools is atrocious and getting worse - lack of ability to discipline badly behaved children is typically cited as the main problem.

Has always been the case. Both my dc are well behaved kids who put in the effort. Always overlooked. While little Wotsit the Demon behaves themselves for 1 lesson and gets cake with the Deputy Head. My dc are teenagers and know the score.

I do put my foot down at my dc being used as classroom babysitters for children struggling with their behaviour. Or Learning Partners if that’s what the school prefer. That’s not my dc’s responsibility and I make it very clear to teachers when such situations arise that my dc need to be moved.

I’m an ex teacher with 20 odd year’s experience in working in challenging schools. I know how hard teachers have to work to manage challenging behaviour. I get it but my dc will not be made to model appropriate behaviour to others in what is their own learning time.

I’m 26 and it was just like this when I was at school. The usual naughty kid would throw two glue sticks at the teacher instead of their usual three and get awarded star of the week.
My boy is 10 and this way of doing things is still alive and well I didn’t know what to say when he asked why one kid had won star of the week even though they’re the naughtiest in class

Always been the same! When my DS was at high school they took all the disruptive kids on trips out when the ofsted inspector was coming, much to the other kids dismay.

Naughty kids would win prizes for being well behaved and all the ones who kept their heads down and worked hard would get sod all.

There's worse.

Try having a very well behaved child with severe SEN but of the SpLd and non disruptive variety, who by working really, really hard just about manages to scrap through but nowhere near their ability level.

Those children don't get any extra help, or praise or certificates - but aren't succeeding either.

Be thankful that you can at least dole out the praise at home, rather than having to try and navigate the system to try and get some help.

I do like this picture as an explanation and it works in lots of situations but in a lot of schools what happens is some kids who require extra support would be taken to the game and those who are doing well without support don't even get on the bus

That was the case with my DS too, he was once left alone in a sports hall when the rest of his class went on a school trip 🤦‍♀️ That's the extent of such kids being overlooked and quite literally left behind.

This. Use the quiet kids to mellow out the disruptive kids, or even to tutor them.

Primary school was awful for my very bright son. He would complete the work and if lucky, be given an extra question as a challenge. He would complete that as well and then have to sit and read whilst everyone else caught up.

In year 6 he was reading 3-4 chapter books (Percy Jackson etc) every week because of how much he read at school.

He was so fed up. He became angry and frustrated in the last couple of years there, and it all came out with poor behaviour at home.

When he moved to secondary school he became a different child. So happy, chilled out. He still finds the work easier, but he is at least stretched for it. He also gets recognition for his work, something he has always craved and thrived on but got very little in primary school.

I hadn't appreciated how bad it was for him until his complete personality change at secondary school.

Sadly my year 5 daughter is experiencing something similar. She does everything she is supposed to do, always described well at parents evenings etc. But she never gets the star of the week award. Then I see on the app that it's been awarded to a child who I know is a pain in the ass and I just think it sends out such a awful message.

It annoys me that people dismiss these concerns because they think that the children will do well regardless. My son was showing symptoms of mental distress at times out of sheer frustration. It shouldn't be acceptable for any child to feel like that, regardless of ability!

What I find particularly sad, as an ex-primary teacher, is that schools are now so busy firefighting issues and ploughing through a dry and overstuffed curriculum that teachers have no time to recognise pupils as individuals or acknowledge particular talents or interests that they may have.

Not blaming teachers themselves for this (although I’m finding increasing numbers of ECTs do have a strictly ‘work to rule’ attitude) as I’m still closely involved in the sector and get how tough it is, but when I was teaching a decade or so ago there was still that little bit of leeway that meant I could nurture a child’s interest in art, or music, or sport, or at the very least flag it up to parents as something to focus on at home. Now we have a solely utilitarian, tick-box, sausage factory culture, where children are just numbers on a spreadsheet for Ofsted. So many children fall through the cracks this way, and the equity agenda means that many schools are reluctant even to acknowledge straightforward academic ability - you are told that your child is working above age-related expectations but those not completely au fait with school culture would often be none the wiser as to whether their child was slightly above average or an intellectual prodigy!

The disruptive child should not be in that class. That is the bottom line

They have alternative educational needs which require higher staff ratios.

This ISN'T a SEN issue either. There are plenty of SEN kids who are well behaved and it frustrates the hell out of me that people assume that SEN kids are all disruptive / your kid can't be SEN if they aren't disruptive. These are the kids who often get the double whammy of having their needs completely overlooked whilst also being on the recieving end of whatever crap their peers who can't behave deal them.

DS was bullied by another child with SEN a few years ago. Thankfully DS being SEN too meant they couldn't use that an excuse to shit on DS. They tried that with his mate - the whole nine yards of guilt tripping crap. It was only after DS literally stood and took punches for his mate and didn't hit back that school started to take it seriously. He was 8 and we couldn't protect him. It was a bloody joke. The school tried to brush the whole safeguarding stuff under the carpet.

The problem is a lack of spaces for kids who fall into this boat of being able enough for mainstream but have dysfunctional emotional regulation. It impacts EVERYONE in a negative way. It does not make kids more understanding of children who are different - it makes them hate their guts because they have to put up with the shit day in and day out.

This 'equity' business is basically a race to the bottom but with PR spin that says its inclusive. Is it fuck. Its the quiet kids who get marginalised / ruined confidence - if they'd been given support to boost their confidence they'd might well achieve a lot more. Instead they are lost because they are trying to cater to kids who need a completely different system and simply do not work in the system we have. Its flogging a dead horse doing this over and over again. The worst thing is most of the teachers know this.

Of course we aren't actually allowed to say this outloud because its 'not being empathetic and inclusive enough'. Its such bullshit, designed to silence parents and teachers who can see its the system thats completely fucked. I'm done with being polite about this. It needs to change and unless parents do get angry (and challenge this in a constructive manner), it will destroy an entire generation.

It’s always been like this, and every year plays and other thing’s always same children on stage, reading or singing/dancing usually teachers or pta members kids. My kids have noticed that star of the week seems to be given to the naughty kids who have done as there told once rather than a sensible child who is good and tries there hardest.

Yes that’s why we pushed for private school. It’s been like this since I was a kid

This the problem. These kids shouldn’t be in school at all. But often are uncontrollable (or parents just don’t care) so if they’re not physically forced to be somewhere they’d be causing mayhem on the streets. It also doesn’t help that many state schools actively deny or hide criminal behaviour so the kids who need to be in jail aren’t (eg the trans girl who was murdered by a girl who’d drugged kids before but the school covered it up).

This is where I feel there’s a space for military schools.

At my school we do have a weekly reward that is specifically for those children. Our head is very clear that it isn’t a ‘tick list’ where every child in the class will get it at some point, but a reward for consistently doing the right thing. The children have to know why they are getting it e.g. always trying to do their best, or being a kind, friendly member of the class, or always doing what they are asked to do straightaway.

This.
We are leaving UK and relocate after 20 years. It's enough. We can't afford a private school in UK but in Scandinavian we can and look forward to escape this sh*tshow. It won't stop for years to come.

You are right OP and the brighter kids do notice. My dd was incandescent when she reached age 11 that she never once received the “golden head teacher’s award”. They literally overlooked her for the 7 years she was at the school. Let alone the sweets, extra forest school sessions, trips to the theatre, extended break times etc that the naughty kids were bribed with. It made my dd so cynical at such a young age.

Being quiet and mature my dd observed a lot at school. She listened. She remembers eavesdropping on a conversation between her exasperated Y6 teacher and the HT who insisted that one of the naughtiest boys in class needed firmer treatment which the HT wouldn’t permit under the one-size-fits-all behaviour policy, and the HT squarely blaming that teacher for the situation. The Y6 teacher left the school at the end that year in disgust and my dd was sympathetic.

Now she is older dd looks back on primary school with total contempt, she declares that reward-based behaviour management removes an opportunity for children to learn difficult emotional lessons and to become more resilient and self-motivated. She is 15 by the way and she wants to be a primary HT - her goal in life is to go back and prove it can be done better. I wish her luck.

@RedToothBrush i recommend martial arts for all quiet kids. Often small local clubs are cheap. Learning to block a physical attack and having the confidence to laughingly say, “yeah just try me, if you think you can”. My DD quietly encouraged a rumour to spread that was basically lethal and stage rumour followed her to secondary school (her icebreaker in y11 was “I have a weapons licence.” It is a bit of an exaggeration but honesty onsite, you don’t want to arm her with a stick). Tack on a few years of army cadets and your quiet kid is now quietly oozing self confidence instead of shrinking away.