EHCP ‘naming a secondary’ how does it work?

[Bearlionfalcon]

After a slightly sobering meeting about our dyslexic DD we have been told her primary school would support trying to get her an EHCP, she is in year four currently. She is bright and very keen to learn, loves reading now - but I think she is quite behind in writing / spelling and struggling with maths. In some areas she is way behind - spelling /punctuation and things like place value/ number bonds in particular. But verbally she presents as very bright. Anyway - I had a question about EHCPs. I have heard you can name a secondary school on them - is that right? This would be amazing for her as anecdotally there are two good schools near us which are good for dyslexia - an all -girls comp which we are not in catchment for, (catchment is tiny) and a small inclusive private school with good dyslexia support. I’d be happy with the comp, but would they allow us to name a different comp than the one we are in catchment for, if it’s not a ‘dyslexia specialist’ school (just a generally better school with better dyslexia support as well as better everything?!) or, alternatively, would they fund/ let me name a local mainstream private school (even if it’s not a dyslexia specialist school) on the basis that she would be in smaller class sizes and more 1:1 support there? Or, would it only allow me to ‘name’ a specialist dyslexia school (like fairly house) which I’m not sure would be ideal for her (it’s soo far away and I hate the idea of her not being in her community and having local friends as those things are important too.) I would appreciate any advice. Tia

You name the secondary and the CWO should consult with the school. If they say they can meet need and everyone agrees then it goes in the EHCP paperwork and you don't need to apply through the usual way.

You need to have the transition EHCP review really early in the school year to allow time. It helps to also discuss it at the year 5 EHCP review.

There are always cases where a private school can be funded via the EHCP but it's not the norm, especially if there are state funded possibilities.

You don't name a school, you state a preference and the LA consult with your preferred school and others they consider appropriate.

Thank you, so I can name any school at that stage? Can they refuse to consult with my school or do they have to? Sounds like they will consult with them but also with others - including the more local ones I don’t think can meet her needs. If the school says they can meet her needs then she will get a place there, or could the LA still overrrule it? And if the school says they cant can I make a different option or do I have to take my local comp at that point? My DD is in year four now and I haven’t even started the EHCP - so just wondering how early this all needs to happen. Thanks so much for all the advice so far

I am not an expert, but from everything I have read, it is very unlikely that they will fund the private school, particularly if the benefit is “smaller classes” rather than a specific provision for the SEN.

You can name any school but you need reasons really. The CWO can consult with them but that doesn't mean you will get that school. The school can say yes or no to meeting your child's needs. They could say no and still be directed to take your child if it is felt that they actually can meet need but in that situation usually the parent doesn't want their child there any more.

Then it goes to panel. They won't automatically agree to a school just because you've asked for it and the school can meet need. As the pp said it's unusual for a private school to be paid for, for example. It would have to be agreed that no other local authority school can meet need.

This also applies to alternative provisions.

Of course the first hurdle is getting the EHCP. For that and for the school choice you need as much actual black and white evidence as you can get that your child needs more support than the current school can put in without extra funding for more support. They need to show all that they have tried putting in place first to try and meet need.

You’re jumping the gun here a little. You haven’t even started the EHCP process, and it’s not a guarantee that she will get one if schools can meet her needs with the resources they already have.
Firstly, what assessments has your DD already had? Has she had a formal dyslexia assessment or just a in-house screening? (TAs a Senco I did in house screenings where dyslexia was suspected, but it wasn’t a diagnostic assessment).What support does her school provide? Has she been assessed by an EP?

It's unlikely you will get a private school funded for dyslexia alone as it is fairly easy for most mainstream secondaries to provide support for such needs. Have you had a full dyslexia assessment? It is good that school are supportive but again getting an ehcp for dyslexia alone is very difficult nowadays, do school believe she has other needs too?

Those with EHCPs should have a phase transfer review in the autumn term of Y6. As part of that process, you get the chance to state your preferred school.

Unless your preferred school is wholly independent, the LA must name it unless the LA can prove:
-The setting is unsuitable for the age, ability, aptitude or special educational needs (“SEN”) of the child or young person; or
-The attendance of the child or young person would be incompatible with the provision of efficient education for others; or
-The attendance of the child or young person would be incompatible with the efficient use of resources.

The bar to prove one of these is higher than LAs and some schools admit. Unless the LA can prove one of the above, the school must be named even if the school objects. Although it isn’t unusual for LAs to refuse and force parents to appeal. Equally, A positive consult doesn’t mean the LA will agree to name the school. The LA may force you to appeal. Being outside of the normal catchment area doesn’t prevent a school being named on the EHCP, it is a separate process to normal admissions.

For wholly independent schools, mainstream and specialist, your/DC’s wishes/views must be considered. You need an offer of a place and to prove the LA’s proposed school(s) can’t meet needs &/or it isn’t unreasonable public expenditure. Sadly, many have to appeal.

Smaller class sizes need to be defined because special educational provision in F of EHCPs needs to be detailed, specified and quantified, but it absolutely can be a reason for an independent mainstream school to be named.

Right now, focus on the test for an EHCNA. The threshold for an EHCNA is relatively low - a) has or may have SEN, and b) may need special educational provision to be made via an EHCP. Any other test, such as needing 2+ APDR cycles, the school needing to have spent £6k, needing an EP assessment first, DD being X amount of years behind, needing other needs because not having EHCPs for ‘only’ dyslexia… is unlawful.

You need to get the EHCP first. Focus on that. Read all the relevant parts of the IPSEA website. Request the ECHNA yourself if school haven't done it by Christmas.

I don't want to scare you, but it took us two years (due to tribunal waits) from starting in October of year 5, and we didn't get to "name" the school until June of year 6, so had to do the normal application process anyway.

www.mumsnet.com/talk/special_educational_needs/5309128-ehcp-support-thread-no-5?utm_campaign=thread&utm_medium=app_share

Thanks so much for all this amazing advice which I’m reading carefully, thank you
DD has had a dyslexia assessment and has a diagnosis of dyslexia. Since she was diagnosed in March her state primary have put a lot of supper in place - classroom adjustment, small group support with phonics, reading, spelling and maths, plus some counselling/ arth therapy to support her confidence. They’ve been great. Separately we have funded 1:1 teaching with a dyslexia specialist tutor for an hour a week, PLUS more recently a maths tutor since she has been behind in that too. However despite all this support she is still struggling hence the school have said that we should consider starting the process for EHCP. Dyslexia is a profound need on its own - I don’t get this idea that it’s not! - but I guess they like me are probably starting to wonder whether the dyslexia diagnosis is really got to the bottom of all her memory and processing issues which do seem profound. She is totally unable to retain some things like basic spellings, times tables, number bonds. The school say she will need a scribe for SATS.
So I guess the next step is more assessments starting with a full EP assessment; what other evidence should I try to gather for the EHCP?
Sounds like funding for the small private school is unlikely, but I might have a shot at the comp with better SEND support, I’d be happy with this but I wonder whether the LA won’t like it because the school I like is in the next London borough along and it’s like saying none of their boroughs schools can meet her needs. I guess the first step is to establish fully what her needs are as she is getting a lot of support and it doesn’t seem to be working at the moment. It’s really disheartening. She is in all other respects a bright happy sociable girl with lots of friends, and currently she enjoys school but right now she is in the bubble of a very supportive primary who are pulling out the stops for her - whereas at secondary I just know the support won’t be there for her. The SENCOs at our two closest schools have basically told me she will get nothing from just having a dyslexia diagnosis which is the main reason I want the EHCP - that and being able to potentially obtain a place at the better comp which is known for good SEND support (it’s a 35 min journey on public transport which we could find and DD would easily manage, very normal for London).

You don’t need an EP assessment before requesting an EHCNA. The only test for an EHCNA is a) has or may have SEN, and b) may need special educational provision to be made via an EHCP. From your post, you have enough evidence to meet that test with what you have/can get from those already involved. If the LA agree to assess, an EP assessment will be part of the needs assessment. SALT, OT and CP assessments can be too.

The school being in a different LA doesn’t change the rules. Don’t let the LA try to convince you otherwise.

I would focus on the EHCP and the support it will get, rather than the secondary school at this stage. We have just been successful applying for an EHCP despite school telling us we wouldn’t get it. Our assessment and outcome was done to deadline (20 weeks), which really surprised me.

I did the EHCNA myself as I thought I’d do a more thorough job than the SENCO. There is a lot of guidance out there on various websites. I broke needs down into cognitive, SEMH, sensory and communication as recommended on guidance notes - your child may “only” have cognitive needs and that’s ok. We had private OT and SALT assessments, plus formal diagnosis of conditions. Many people don’t.

What I tried to evidence was “this is the problem, we do this, school has done X, Y and Z, and MiniMyCat still isn’t making age-appropriate progress despite all this help, and school can’t do any more with current resources”.

I wouldn’t bother with a private EP report at this stage. I would save your money and if the needs assessment is refused, appeal and spend it then. You should be able to evidence need and articulate what she is struggling with and that she isn’t making progress despite extra support.

Or the private school which she could walk to - I love the idea of that because the school day is tiring for her, plus the fact that it has smaller class sizes and specialist SENCO support for but as PP says they might still refuse this. I wonder if the SENCOs of the schools I like would be up for chatting to me and setting out what they each can provide so I can work out which is better and whether there is a case for arguing for the private school.

Hi
I am an experienced SENCO and I am sorry to say that I doubt that you will get an EHCP for dyslexia diagnosis or not. I do not think it will meet the threshold but you can try. You will need an EP assessment saying that she is in the lower percentile in cognition for example processing, comprehension, expressive language, receptive language etc. This needs to be evidenced in her progress data over time and that no matter what the school are doing on top of teaching she is making no progress. If you do get an EHCP you can name an out of borough school but they as any other school can say that they can not meet her needs. It is a long and laborious process so be prepared. Good Luck.

@flawlessflipper your posts have been amazing, I’ll do everything you suggest, thank you so much.
one more question - is there any benefit to funding the reports privately myself and having my ‘ducks in a row’ (to use mumsnet parlance!) before the EHCP process starts to ensure we meet the ‘needs assessment’ test and there are no delays, or will the LA fund these assessments (and if they are LA funded are they more likely to state my DD doesn’t have high enough needs or is that too cynical to ask?)

Also most boroughs will not accept a private EP assessment. They will take it into consideration but would want their own borough one which sorry to say usually has a long waiting list.

LA reports often aren’t as detailed, specified and quantified as good independent reports. Personally, I wouldn’t fund assessments yourself now before requesting an EHCNA. Anyone good with experience of writing medico-legal standard reports for SENDIST will have a waiting list and you don’t want to delay applying for an EHCNA. Also, if the LA refuse to assess, you sound like you will have enough evidence for a successful refusal to assess appeal, anyway. If the LA agree to assess but refuse to issue or you have to appeal the content, you find need to target your money at e.g. independent OT and SALT reports and the LA EP report will do (not brilliant but satisfactory compared to the need to get independent SALT and OT).

It is not lawful for LAs to have blanket policies of refusing to accept independent evidence.

According to the latest government statistics, more CYP with EHCPs had SpLD as their primary need than they did HI, VI, PMLD or MSI. Obviously they won’t all have dyslexia, but it is possible to get an EHCP for ‘just’ dyslexia or where dyslexia is the primary need. Don’t be put off by people saying you won’t get an EHCP.

@azafata2 thanks very much for your input. Initially when she was screened and then diagnosed our SENCO said the same as you, that she was ocnfident her needs could be met without an EHCP and she was unlikely to get one. But that same SENCO is now saying after working with my daughter / monitoring for the past 9 months that she thinks we should start the process. That’s the only reason I’ve decided to do it TBH as everything else I’d previously read suggests dyslexia is ‘not enough’ (even though I find that so wrong when my daughter is so affected by it educationally in so many ways!) so do you think there is no point in getting assessments privately to support our case/ ‘speed the process up’ because the LA will want their own anyway and we will have to join the queue?

We were pleasantly surprised with the EP report for our child, which highlighted some cognitive difficulties we had suspected but hadn’t been able to work out what the issue was (if that makes sense). I did have to push as they wanted to assess DC remotely which would have been pointless but they really got the fact that DC has cognitive issues (which school has been in total denial about). A private EP report will be more thorough.

If you use Facebook, I’d have a look for local groups - “EHCP in [insert county/area]”, “additional needs in [town/coty]”, etc. You may find local parents who’ve been through the application process. I would definitely highlight that you suspect she has underlying cognitive issues because you and school are supplying all this support for dyslexia but she still isn’t making expected progress.

Even private EPs will have a long waiting list. You might want to book one in now but I would start the EHCNA application process without delay. If it’s accepted, great. If not, appeal and you’ll have your private EP report as additional evidence by the time the appeal comes round. What you don’t want to do is to faff around spending ages getting everything totally perfect to make sure it gets through first time, and lose months to it. Ask me how I know 😬.

We were pleasantly surprised with the EP report for our child, which highlighted some cognitive difficulties we had suspected but hadn’t been able to work out what the issue was (if that makes sense). I did have to push as they wanted to assess DC remotely which would have been pointless but they really got the fact that DC has cognitive issues (which school has been in total denial about). A private EP report will be more thorough.

If you use Facebook, I’d have a look for local groups - “EHCP in [insert county/area]”, “additional needs in [town/coty]”, etc. You may find local parents who’ve been through the application process. I would definitely highlight that you suspect she has underlying cognitive issues because you and school are supplying all this support for dyslexia but she still isn’t making expected progress.

Even private EPs will have a long waiting list. You might want to book one in now but I would start the EHCNA application process without delay. If it’s accepted, great. If not, appeal and you’ll have your private EP report as additional evidence by the time the appeal comes round. What you don’t want to do is to faff around spending ages getting everything totally perfect to make sure it gets through first time, and lose months to it. Ask me how I know 😬.

During an EHCNA, advice and information has to be sought from a range of people. This includes an EP (Regulation 6(1)(d) of the Special Educational Needs and Disability Regulations 2014). However, Reg 6(4) states “The local authority must not seek any of the advice referred to in paragraphs (1)(b) to (h) if such advice has previously been provided for any purpose and the person providing that advice, the local authority and the child's parent or the young person are satisfied that it is sufficient for the purposes of an EHC needs assessment.” So if there is existing evidence, as long as it is sufficient, existing independent evidence can and should be used. The problem is, even when an existing independent EP report is actually sufficient, the LA often claims it isn’t because their own will be more woolly and vague. Even if it is deemed not to be sufficient, the information should still be considered since Reg 7(b) states the LA must "consider any information provided to the local authority by or at the request of the child, the child's parent or the young person." This doesn’t make LAs having a blanket policy of not accepting independent reports lawful. It isn’t. LAs often like to ignore all this and force parents to appeal. I still wouldn’t wait for an EP report before requesting an EHCNA, though.

@MyCatPrefersPeaches thanks so much for sharing this as this had been my instinct - to flap around getting everything perfect first - I’ll get the application underway asap instead. I’m very apprehensive after everything I’ve read on here but I do suspect there is an underlying cognitive issue. I’ll post an image of the scores she got on her dyslexia assessment. As you can see her IQ is high but processing low. The assessor said she does have the classic dyslexia difficulties with phonological processing and memory, but believed her ‘general processing difficulties were the key’ to the trouble she is having in school. But I left unsure whether this sort of counted as part of the dyslexia, or something else? For example if she sits down to do column addition, or subtraction, she can do it - but if you put her on the spot to do 20-4 in her head she really struggles. She also forgets even basic year two spellings like ‘also’ and ‘what’ which we have been over sooooo many times and she gets them in a single word spelling test but totally forgets them while doing a piece of writing.

This was what the report came back with