EHCP ‘naming a secondary’ how does it work?

[Bearlionfalcon]

After a slightly sobering meeting about our dyslexic DD we have been told her primary school would support trying to get her an EHCP, she is in year four currently. She is bright and very keen to learn, loves reading now - but I think she is quite behind in writing / spelling and struggling with maths. In some areas she is way behind - spelling /punctuation and things like place value/ number bonds in particular. But verbally she presents as very bright. Anyway - I had a question about EHCPs. I have heard you can name a secondary school on them - is that right? This would be amazing for her as anecdotally there are two good schools near us which are good for dyslexia - an all -girls comp which we are not in catchment for, (catchment is tiny) and a small inclusive private school with good dyslexia support. I’d be happy with the comp, but would they allow us to name a different comp than the one we are in catchment for, if it’s not a ‘dyslexia specialist’ school (just a generally better school with better dyslexia support as well as better everything?!) or, alternatively, would they fund/ let me name a local mainstream private school (even if it’s not a dyslexia specialist school) on the basis that she would be in smaller class sizes and more 1:1 support there? Or, would it only allow me to ‘name’ a specialist dyslexia school (like fairly house) which I’m not sure would be ideal for her (it’s soo far away and I hate the idea of her not being in her community and having local friends as those things are important too.) I would appreciate any advice. Tia

Sorry this one is hopefully clearer

Yes. As I pointed out in the three boroughs I work over in London private assessments "will be considered" but are often not accepted as evidence. However sounds like the SENCO has done s good job, assessing and reviewing progress of your little girl. If this is showing no or very little progress in relation to her peers this is very effective evidence for an application. Also I have had excellent EP reports from the boroughs flagging up significant cognition problems which had been missed.

but are often not accepted as evidence.

This is what is not lawful. LAs should not have such blanket policies. Parents do not have to accept it and SENDIST will genuinely consider all evidence rather than the LA’s lip service to considering it then not accepting it as evidence.

Mmmm. Unless there has been no evidential progress over the last few months assessed and reviewed by the SENCO/teachers then with the diagnosis above does not indicate significant problems in cognition, short term / long term memory retention, processing and comprehension.

Looking at the results and your post describing DD’s needs, the support she is currently receiving and the school’s comments, she needs further input, not just from EP but SALT and OT. Her needs aren’t fully understood at the moment. If her needs aren’t fully understood, the support she requires can’t be either.

@azafata2 thanks so much again and that’s encouraging to hear. I do think our SENCO has done a really good job keeping an eye on her progress. She seems to really care and know her stuff. Our LA is hackney, I don’t know whether you have experience of them. It sounds like LAs really vary on how they respond to requests for EHCPs and in terms of their timescales.

You mentioned difficulties with numerical processing, so has she been assessed for dyscalculia too? It is worth finding out her full range of needs, so you can push for the right support. I can't imagine they would agree to fund a private school unless you were able to prove that no other state school can meet her needs, so the comprehensive seems like your best bet. If you have an ehcp by year 6, you get one choice of secondary, instead of the preferences system for everyone else.

@zonder it’s definitely the case that the school can’t meet her needs at stated in the diagnostic assessment for dyslexia because that says she needs 1:1 teaching with a dyslexia specialist teacher and the school have been clear from day one that they can’t provide this, so we have had to do this privately at home. The school have done loads for her and I think really have done everything they can within their budget but she isn’t making the hopes for progress despite everything that’s been in place at home and at school unfortunately.

Despite what some LAs think, the timescales are the same in all LAs. LAs often like to think they can breach these timescales but parents can force action if this happens, including via JR if necessary.

Go for it! Good Luck.

The school sounds like they've tried really hard. What you've put in your response to me has to be what you focus on evidencing in the echna.

Just be aware of pp’s advising you should meet criteria for an EHCNA, that may be true but you don’t want to get to 16 weeks and the EP EHCNA advice is ordinarily available and an EHCP is not issued. It’s stressful using the tribunal route. I’d ask school to get an EP report (they may have a linked EP and have hours available). There are different types of reports eg an assessment report, or a report to support an EHCNA which will have the four areas of need and strengths and needs. The second should meet LA criteria and you could also ask the LA team if they have any recommended EPs. While schools do not have to evidence a graduated response or ‘spend’ £6k, schools do need to be using their available resources and then evidencing they can’t meet need at OA. You don’t even necessarily need specialist reports if school is putting provision in place and she’s not making progress but an EP report is useful

schools do need to be using their available resources and then evidencing they can’t meet need at OA.

It is possible to secure an EHCNA/EHCP without this. It is even possible if a school could do more but won’t.

Tribunals are stressful, but at least SENDIST (the SEN tribunal) carefully follows the law and reads everything you send them!

I found that quite refreshing and validating, personally, after 18 months of my LA reading nothing, ignoring the law and being about as much help as a chocolate teapot...

Just be aware that even if a particular school seems perfect and you have an EHCP you may not be allocated that school.

The number of people in the same position as you all going for the same school will have an impact. The number of children needing certain help far outweighs the number of places available.

It leads to lots of children chasing a limited number of places - and only those with the greatest need will get that support.

The rest will then have to consider other schools and those schools will have to consider whether they can support your child's needs.

It's a crazy system where some child effectively find themselves in a situation where there isn't a space available at a school which can provide the necessary support.

I currently know two children trying to get a specialist place at a high school for next year - there's about a dozen places across the council area and about fifty children applying for those places. It's absolutely insane. One has a decent chance of being one of the lucky twelve. The other I simply don't think he'll get it despite having significant needs and being massively disruptive to the rest of the class. I believe his parents are in the process of trying to relocate abroad, which is probably a wise decision for a variety of reasons.

Getting an ECHP is just the first step, with many being refused on first attempt, almost as a blanket default, but then being granted when parents fight the decision on appeal.

It strikes me that you are only just beginning to find that schools do not have the ability or means to support children in the way they should. It is terrifying just how many are being completely failed and falling through the cracks.

I hope all goes well and you get the support your daughter needs but be aware of just how inadequate the system actually is. Honestly, you may want to consider if you can afford that private school yourself as part of your thought process.

I definitely agree with @flawlessflipper . That dyslexia assessment is not striking, but your description of your DD's needs is. That's not to say that there's no needs highlighted, but it does suggest that it's not the whole story.

@flawlessflipper is incredibly knowledgeable about the EHCP processes but I just wanted to break it down a bit for you because you're right at the beginning.

First step: Requesting an Education Health and Care Needs Assessment (EHCNA). As flawless says, LAs love to make complicated criteria - hoops to jump through. But there are only 2 criteria in law:

• has or may have SEN
• may need special educational provision to be made via an EHCP

That's it. May. Not definitely does.

The application for a needs assessment can be made by the school, or by you. I prefer the 'you' because then you get to decide what evidence to include, and what gets said, and when it gets said. The school should be able to help you with information about your DD's progress, but if they are reluctant, or say it's too early, etc., you can put in a Subject Access Request and that will give you all the information, including any emails where they've discussed your child. That can be helpful - I had emails saying 'DD2 can be taken off SEN support, right?' and the reply of 'oh no... Need to keep that one on!'

Once the EHCNA request goes in, the LA has 6 weeks to make a decision about whether they agree to make an assessment of your DD's needs. They send a decision letter. If they refuse to assess, you can appeal that decision.

If they go ahead with assessment, they must commission an Educational Psychology assessment, and they must ask for your contribution of views, and they must ask the school for their views. There is a vague entry on the list of people they must ask that is "anyone that the parent reasonably requests". This is your opportunity to request SALT and OT assessments. The LA is likely to say that they need to be accessed via the NHS. Two problems with that - waiting lists, and most NHS OT services aren't commissioned for sensory integration. You can say that as the waiting lists are so long and the EHCNA process is governed by strict timelines, they will need to get assessments independently of the NHS.

It's really important the the Ed Psych gets a really clear understanding of the difficulties you're DD is experiencing, so don't hold back. If she comes home absolutely exhausted from school and has tantrums/meltdowns or is shut down and withdrawn, tell them. They need to see the whole picture. If your DD struggles with group work, make sure they know. If your DD struggles with the class size, make sure they know.

EPs do a range of assessments and some seem quite silly. DD2 was asked to colour code a map of her school with 'green' (fine), 'amber' (ok) and 'red' (not ok). I thought it was a bit of a daft exercise - she wasn't attending due to EBSA. It was really profound though. She circled the entire school in red. Annotated reach bit with 'too busy', 'too noisy', 'might see teacher x', etc. Then there was a single green dot on the road outside the school with 'I'm going home so I'm ok'. After a couple of failed placements she is now in a independent special school that gives a bespoke timetable and 1:1 support at all times, with each student being taught individually.

Once the reports are done, each report will make recommendations about the provision your DD needs.

If the provision detailed in the reports is reasonably expected to be made from every day resources of a typical school, the EHCNA result will be that she doesn't need an EHCP. Examples might be targeted teaching, word banks, extra reading sessions, 1:1 targeted sessions for reading/writing/spelling/maths. That would all be expected within universal and targeted provision. However, if the provision recommended exceeds that typically expected in a mainstream school, she will need an EHCP.

The EHCP will only provide for provision that is specifically recommended by professional reports, which is why it's so important that you get accurate and comprehensive reports.

Once the EHCP is drafted, it will be sent to you and you will have 15 days to make comments and name a preference for a setting.

Naming a setting

Any setting has to be able to meet the needs of your child as listed on the EHCP. Each setting the LA consults with will be sent the EHCP and they'll be asked if they can meet needs. You can ask the LA to consult with a range of settings.

You can ask them to consult with a private school. However, it is likely that if a mainstream state school says they can meet needs, the LA will say that your preferred private school is 'an inefficient use of resources'. In other words, there is a cheaper school that can meet needs. Bear in mind location and transport costs, though. If the school that the LA prefers is over 2 miles (primary) or 3 miles (secondary) away, the LA must pay for transport, and that can be factored in to the overall cost.

Ultimately, your first step is making sure that the EHCNA request is thorough and timely. Go from there.

If DD is still struggling with things like times tables and number bonds (and apologies if you have already tried these things) its worth trying to engage in non-written ways as much as possible. There are some great Times Tables CDs/downloads that have very catchy tunes - pick one that you like the music because you need to have it on frequently. The music may be really helpful to helping DD remember. With number bonds have you tried sitting down together and showing DD how they work using a bar of chocolate (or lego)? Bulk buy some chocolate bars over half term and get DD to teach them back to you, starting at the very beginning. Processing difficulties can be comorbid with conditions like ADHD - if you think attention/focus might also be an issue, then keep each interaction short and focused, with no distractions. Lots and lots of praise!

Also, don't assume that the support your DD is getting is the support she needs. At the time DD2 was in year 4 she was being given universal provision, but they would take her out of assembly and say 'DD2, we're doing something new in maths today and it's going to blow your mind, so I want to show you it before we do it. Or 'DD2, we're going to review something we've done before, but I think you might have forgotten it, so I want to remind you of it before class'.

By year 5, she had completely shut down. Couldn't even write a word. So they scribed for her. Then they got her to dictate, they wrote it on a whiteboard and she copied. Then they wrote almost everything but left out connecting words that she had to remember to fill in. Then they only wrote the key phrases she'd said. Then they only wrote key words. Then they gave her a stopwatch and gave her 5 minutes to write 3 sentences. Then 5 minutes to write a paragraph. Then 10 minutes to write 2 paragraphs, etc. This was all under 'SEN support'.

She went to secondary school with no SEN provision except permission to visit the SEN block in break time. We limped through. Year 10 was disastrous and we went from full time, to fairly frequent absence, to part-time to out of school. The SENCO completely refused to apply for an EHCP, saying that she didn't meet criteria. She refused two direct instructions to help me by her line manager. So I did it myself.

Post assessment, DD2 is described as having 'complex needs'. She has a range of needs that were explained during the EHCP process. There was no way she was ever going to finish well in a mainstream school, despite being 'of at least average intelligence'.

The statutory walking distance (2miles for under 8s and 3 miles for 8+) isn’t relevant to transport applications for those whose SEN means the can’t reasonably be expected to walk to school.

thanks so much all for these amazing messages. I’m going through them all and taking lots of notes. Will spend the morning on ISPEA website too.

@RedToothBrush you might be right. I think there is a possibility I’m in a bit of a catch 22 here because if they say she is ‘just’ dyslexic and ‘just’ needs the normal adjustments that dyslexic pupils get in any mainstream school (even though these aren’t working), then the LA will presumably argue she doesn’t need the EHCP and can go to any mainstream school. But on the other hand if I manage to prove that she has a cognitive issue sufficient to merit an EHCP, I am willing to bet that both the private school and my chosen comprehensive (both of which are, in the end, mainstream schools) will probably argue those needs are too high for them to meet. I could then argue for her to get a place at a dyslexia specialist school like fairly house, but a) the LA will likely fight this as fees are even more than a standard private school and b) there may not be a place and c) I really don’t want her travelling that far away anyway.

We could just about bite the bullet and pay for the private school ourselves - if only to avoid the EHCP process horror especially if everyone thinks we will likely fail anyway - but our dyslexic DD is the oldest of 3 l, and while the other two seem neurotypical they are too young really to know, and the thought fills me with dread because what if one of the other two ends up having a need - or what if they grow up to resent the fact that she went to a private school, and we couldn’t afford to send them?

It is so hard and complicated.

@Lougle i am so, so sorry. It sounds like your DD was failed spectacularly. I have no words. I hope she is doing ok now.

You may have to appeal, potentially more than once, but you can get an EHCP with what you describe.

For non-wholly independent schools, the bar to prove one of the lawful exceptions for refusing to name your preference is high - this includes on its own being ‘full’ not being enough.

@savourthecrumpet thanks for the suggestions. I have tried lots of different things. My DD is generally amenable to hard work and at school tried really hard but doing things at home with me can be more problematic and can result in tears and overwhelm. She is already doing a demanding school curriculum plus extra tutoring on top so I think she just gets emotional and exhausted. Another problem is that she is in y4 now and so is completely allergic to any suggestion of doing ‘babyish’ maths like using Lego blocks - even though it’s what she needs. Chocolate is a good idea though, even she might be keen on that!

@savourthecrumpet its also possible she has inattentive adhd. I have been diagnosed with this myself and I see some of the signs in her such as hyperfocus when she is doing what she loves (art, sewing or listening to an audiobook) but lots of fidgeting and distraction at other times, plus dopamine/chasing behaviour

And @Lougle @flawlessflipper thank you so so much for taking all the time you already have to write out all this incredible advice. I’m honestly so grateful.

Seems clear that I need to just get the process underway without delay so I will do that in the first week back as soon as I’ve spoken to the SENCO again

The one thing I’m still slightly confused on is whether it’s worth us getting in line for a private EP tribunal-ready assessment while we wait, or whether I can rely on school or LA, I guess there is no harm in getting on a Waiting list in case

Also sorry for my ignorance but I am also unsure about what an OT actually does and how that might contribute to an assessment but I’ll get googling.