EHCP ‘naming a secondary’ how does it work?

[Bearlionfalcon]

After a slightly sobering meeting about our dyslexic DD we have been told her primary school would support trying to get her an EHCP, she is in year four currently. She is bright and very keen to learn, loves reading now - but I think she is quite behind in writing / spelling and struggling with maths. In some areas she is way behind - spelling /punctuation and things like place value/ number bonds in particular. But verbally she presents as very bright. Anyway - I had a question about EHCPs. I have heard you can name a secondary school on them - is that right? This would be amazing for her as anecdotally there are two good schools near us which are good for dyslexia - an all -girls comp which we are not in catchment for, (catchment is tiny) and a small inclusive private school with good dyslexia support. I’d be happy with the comp, but would they allow us to name a different comp than the one we are in catchment for, if it’s not a ‘dyslexia specialist’ school (just a generally better school with better dyslexia support as well as better everything?!) or, alternatively, would they fund/ let me name a local mainstream private school (even if it’s not a dyslexia specialist school) on the basis that she would be in smaller class sizes and more 1:1 support there? Or, would it only allow me to ‘name’ a specialist dyslexia school (like fairly house) which I’m not sure would be ideal for her (it’s soo far away and I hate the idea of her not being in her community and having local friends as those things are important too.) I would appreciate any advice. Tia

Thank you so much for this. Thank god for Mumsnet, I can see I’m going to need you guys!! Feeling more hopeful today after talking to a couple of other mums in the same boat locally. If she were to get the (mainstream state) school we wanted under EHCP, do you think that would then mean her sibling would then have priority for a place there like any other sibling of any other student? I don’t think I can deal with multiple schools 🤣

It'll depend on the specific admissions criteria of that school - some state siblings in catchment, siblings out of catchment, for instance.

If the school’s oversubscription criteria has a sibling category or categories, not all do, the policy will apply to siblings of pupils placed in the mainstream via an EHCP.

Some mainstream schools who have units (provision, base, cabin… whatever that LA calls them) exclude siblings of DC in the unit from the sibling priority, but there is at least one adjudicator decision condemning this practice.

As part of the process any necessary assessments such as by an EP or SALT should be carried out to inform the EHCP needs assessment. It’s the school’s job to sort this out.

The LA is responsible for seeking advice and information during an EHCNA. The school is not responsible for sorting that out.

contact the LA and request the application forms

The OP doesn’t need to ask the LA for an application form. An DHCNA doesn’t have to be requested using specific form.

If the school gives priority to siblings of existing pupils, they must give priority to all siblings. They cannot refuse to give priority just because the older sibling was admitted via an EHCP.

Unfortunately if you want the private school for your daughter you will likely have to pay it yourself. Managing expectations here but it is HIGHLY unlikely that a child with dyslexia will be given a funded private school place.

From @Bearlionfalcon's description of her DD, it's highly unlikely that she's just dyslexic, tbf. Often people think there's one problem, but there are several problems intersecting. DD3 was 'just hardworking', then she was 'just hardworking and anxious to please', then she was just 'hardworking and anxious to please with OCD.' In fact she was 'hardworking and anxious to please, with ASD, ADHD and OCD.' Now, she's all of the above with PTSD because of the way she was handled at school.

I'm not for one minute suggesting that all of that is going on for @Bearlionfalcon 's child, but the severe difficulties she's describing could be contributed to by sensory difficulties, auditory processing disorder, or a range of other difficulties. These tests are often done 1:1 in a quiet room, so the performance of the child doesn't reflect the reality of how things are in a busy classroom.

What I meant was that the schools should work with the LA to manage this as opposed to the parent funding it themselves.

I am aware that a specific form doesn't need to be used - a quick note on the back of a fag packet would technically suffice. But why would you NOT use the form provided by the LA?

Yep- this is exactly my experience too! First she was 'just august born', then 'just august born and a bit shy/ anxious to please', then 'just august born and a bit shy and anxious to please and taking a bit longer to read', and then she was 'august born and shy and anxious to please with dyslexia and she can't read and er she seems to struggle quite a lot in maths and writing too and she fidgets a lot and seems very anxious...' and now they are starting to suspect there is in fact quite a lot more going on with her.

For a multitude of reasons. For example, LA forms often request information that isn’t part of the legal test, parents don’t always have all the information LA forms ask for, and LA forms aren’t always user-friendly, especially for those who have additional needs themselves, EAL or have limited access to technology.

Yep, I’ve just read my LA’s ‘helpful’ guidance on EHCPNA applications, and it states that the child should have had three cycles of ‘assess, plan, do, review’ before we submit a needs application,
And that we will need to provide all the documentation of this or our application for a needs assessment ‘may be refused’!
As it happens we do have this documentation as our school is pretty on it, but I’m very grateful that @flawlessflipper and @Lougle and others have directed me to the actual law which states that no such thing is necessary - and to the IPSEA template which I’ll definitely be using in place of the ludicrous, impossible to navigate LA form…. Not least because it’ll signal to the LA that I actually know the law and my rights and won’t be f*ed around

It sounds like there may be other needs there as well as the dyslexia. An EP assessment may be useful thankfully you have time there's lots of EHCP support out there and it's sounds as if the school are really supportive so that's great.

Tbf the 3 cycles isn't a problem. It's good practice to have had 3 periods of trying to put things in place to support the child. That then gives evidence that the child needs more than the school can provide. Although I know in our LA at least you don't need 3 cycles any more. And as you said your school are on it and you can show evidence of this.

I can see that, although it seems like a bit of a barrier for people who need to get the help quickly or don’t have supportive schools … what if the school don’t think the child has SEN and won’t do the assessment plan do review stuff? My DD’s school have been really great since she was diagnosed but before that I was struggling to convince her (otherwise supportive) teachers she actually had SEN - probably because she presents well verbally- even though it seemed screamingly obvious to me that she was struggling an abnormal amount in almost everything… the ‘assess, plan, do, review’ cycles only started up once we had the diagnosis… but I guess we are privileged to have been able to pay for that diagnosis, whereas lots of parents at our stage would still be struggling to even convince a school that their child has SEN and that a plan was needed… and I guess all these things just stretch the timescales further and further and all these while you have a young person needing help !

You have never needed 2 or 3 APDR cycles in any LA. That has never been part of the legal test.

Yes. But it's still not unreasonable as something to voluntarily provide as I said - it does give some good evidence that the child needs more than the school can provide.

@Zonder I didn’t say it can’t be used as evidence. I was merely pointing out 2/3 APDR cycles have never been needed in any LA in response to the pp saying “in our LA at least you don't need 3 cycles any more.”

No. I was agreeing with you though.

I also found school didn't do much till.we had a diagnosis (which we also had to pay for).

Parents get caught in a vicious cycle when schools refuse to acknowledge needs, so refuse to do APDR cycles, so LAs refuse EHCNAs on the basis that APDRs haven't been done. There is no legal basis for insisting on evidence of APDR cycles.

When I applied for DD2's EHCNA, the SENCO had completely refused to assist with an application because she was convinced that DD2 didn't meet the criteria. I knew the SEN CoP because DD1 had been subject to a Statement of SEN, then EHCP, since age 4. I knew that DD2 absolutely met the legal test. So I wrote "Please do not use the fact that there are no ADPR cycles to refuse this application, because the absence of ADPR cycles is in itself evidence that the school cannot meet need, given the extent of DD2's SEN."

I personally think that using a letter such as IPSEA's template letter heads off a lot of refusals on spurious grounds because it makes it clear that you know what the SEN CoP says and you know what the legislation that it refers to is.

With the financial crisis, a lot of LAs have had to make Safety Valve Agreements with the DoE. That means that in exchange for a packet of money, they have to agree to conditions for their SEN provision. They claim they haven't been asked to reduce EHCPs, but it's the only way to reduce spending and the statistics are really obvious. The safety valve programme has stopped being used now, but the LAs already in agreements need to see it through.

schoolsweek.co.uk/conflict-as-safety-valve-councils-issue-fewer-ehcps-review-finds/

Ultimately, to save money LAs need to spend money. My LA is building a new 125 place special school for SEMH. They need to. There is a big hole for vulnerable young people without learning disabilities or with mild learning difficulties and SEMH, and they are having to plug it with independent special schools and alternative provisions. As it is a KS2-4 provision, hopefully they will be able to take pupils early and make the difference to them that they need.

That's just so rubbish @Lougle I'm sorry you had to face that. Part of my job involves supporting schools and parents in echna and I've not come across any sendcos decline. I have had a couple tell me they don't think the child will get the EHCP but they've gone along with it anyway. In fact one sendco told the parent that the LA don't grant EHCPs anymore. All the ones I've been involved in applying for have been granted. It really is about knowing what to say and how to say it.

I totally agree that to save money the LAs need to spend money.

I often wonder how many of the posters on these threads have worked as part of an LA SEND Team, sitting on panels and making decisions and writing and monitoring EHCPs.

What do you mean?

Do you mean that we should be seeing their point of view?

I'm afraid I will never see their point of view.

I work in the public sector myself, with children, and would never, ever behave like the LA SEN "professionals" I've encountered. I would have to leave my job if my bosses expected me to do what they do.

Instead of forcing me through two tribunals, they could have...helped?

Also. They are not "monitoring" my daughter's EHCP. They never respond to communications from either me or the school. They do not attend ARs. I have never met or spoken to any of the case officers (they've never met or spoken to my daughter either). I do not actually know who our case officer is!

Do you know what all the LA forms look like? What’s your experience in this field? Perhaps you could ask ChatGPT to produce a form that meets all the criteria so OP can just send that in.
You seem to be coming from the premise that all LAs are working outside the law and that everything they do linked to SEND is unlawful.

By the way this is not one of the "notorious" local authorities like Surrey and Kent whom you read about, so I assume my experience is pretty average and typical.