Whitehall “braced for private schools collapse” 3

[ICouldBeVioletSky]

Starting a third thread to discuss impact of VAT on private school fees, as the topic looks likely to run (and run). Though probably best to finish off the second thread before posting here, thx.

Shame- this thread has been mostly free of offensive comments. Oh, well

@CurlewKate did you miss Baital’s comments about ‘plebs’?

Already 10000 fewer started in September 24 Vs 23 and LAs cumulatively say about 5000 asked for places in year in first half term. Over 3000 from ISC schools handed their notice in before Xmas and currently awaiting data for this term

Ah, so only some schools closing are because of the education tax? Great.Out of interest, just how many schools closing because of this policy is acceptable?

It’s pretty obvious taxing education is going to push pupils into the state and cause schools to close, it’s the point of the policy so it seems an odd argument to say yeah but schools have also closed because of the cost of living crisis.

@twistyizzy Assuming all these children went into the state sector (and assuming my maths isn’t dodgy), that will cost the tax payer around 82 million a year. Bonkers Government.

It is secondary school allocation day today and acceptances are due for us mid March. There will be some cold hard undeniable facts coming the way of the Labour Party shortly.

We got our London superselective grammar together with all of DS’ friends from orchestra (high level) some of whom in normal years pre VAT would have gone private. But who cares, right? Meanwhile DS primary definitely fewer grammar offers than normal, but people are saying the tests were harder.

I never said home ownership was a right. I said housing.

Nobody is denying your child education. They're just asking you to pay 20% extra for what is quite clearly a luxury item.

If 20% tax has made it unaffordable then I maintain my position that you were over stretched in the first place.

VAT isn't a luxury tax. This isn't about taxing a 'luxury' because VAT doesn't work like that

But housing is also based on what you can afford.

You can afford a nice house in a nice area. Good for you. You can't? Then cut your cloth accordingly.

Education is exactly the same. You can either afford private education or you can't. But don't try and say private schooling is a basic right. It is a privilege, pure and simple.

Actually it is. VAT is only added on items considered to be a luxury. I recall the uproar when tampons and sanitary pads were subject to VAT and the argument was quite clearly they are a necessity, not a luxury.

Actually it isn't.
That's why kids designer clothes, caviar etc are VAT exempt. It has nothing to do with luxury. Or are you claiming that caviar is an essential?

VAT is added to toilet paper. Do you consider toilet paper a luxury?

Nobody is denying your child education. They're just asking you to pay 20% extra for what is quite clearly a luxury item.

The policy is denying education choice through taxation, that’s the crux of the ECHR legal action.

In some nations you are not allowed to have fee paying schools.

Which nations?

A few schools will go under but a lot will survive. I don't see the big deal for folk not personally affected.

North Korea. Finland doesn't have any, but I’m not sure if this is because they aren’t allowed.

Australia, Canada, Denmark, Spain, Italy, Ireland, France, Norway, Netherlands, Spain and some US states all support independent school parents through education vouchers or tax benefits. Imagine a Government actually encouraging education choice as well as taking the education burden off the state!! Not the opposite like in Labour Britain.

Finland does have independent schools

Please state which countries?

I stand corrected.

It’s likely to end up being a net cost to the state.

Independent schools produce a lot of qualified people the U.K. needs and we currently have a shortage I.e. over half of our Drs.

Closing schools means job losses and hits to the economy, particularly in rural areas where a school can be a major employer.

High net tax payers will leave for countries with plurality of education choice, where their children’s education is not taxed and their children do not have worrying rhetoric aimed at them.

British private school education is one of our few remaining success stories and internationally respected, this could change.

Forcing children out of their schools can cause dire issues for the children and their parents and possibly wider society.

Generally nothing good comes out of reducing education choice, its why no one else does it.

In Finland schools are not allowed to charge parents fees. However, there are “private schools” which are not run by the state, but which receive state funding.

Apologies for generalising, I didn't mean to offend and am aware that there are many state school children who are thriving and doing well.

Of course there is no difference in natural intelligence between private and state school kids but the average private schools do tend to get better academic results than the average state schools, so there is a clear disparity. I fully expect that my child will initially struggle to keep up with the faster pace and higher expectations when she moves to private, hence why I want to move her in year 5 not year 7.

I'm also sick of the poor behaviour that goes down in her current classroom, it simply wouldn't be accepted in a private school and it is very distracting.

North Korea

I’m sure the children of the ruling Kim family and other North Korean bigwigs have a superior education to the rest of the population. Kim Jong Un went to school in Switzerland - not sure about his siblings.

One of the eye-openers in the parliamentary debate this afternoon was that the treasury expects that there will be 100 excess school closures (i.e. more than would have been the case without the VAT policy) over the next three years. Not a few. That may turn out to be an underestimate.
Another statistic was that the government expect 0.5% of children in UK schools to switch from private to state. If you say it's 1 in 12 kids in private school, or 40,000 kids, it sounds rather different. That may also be an underestimate. And each of those 40,000 may be an individual tragedy for the child and family concerned.
It will only take 15% of kids to move from private to state for this policy to raise nothing at all and start to cost the taxpayer money