Whitehall “braced for private schools collapse” 3

[ICouldBeVioletSky]

Starting a third thread to discuss impact of VAT on private school fees, as the topic looks likely to run (and run). Though probably best to finish off the second thread before posting here, thx.

Thousands over the next few years?

Surely anyone unable to pay for private education (like most of us) will simply apply for state schools like the rest of us plebs?

The people affected are those who hadn't predicted the additional costs, and can't meet the extra until the next educational break point?

At which point they would always have had to cut their coat to suit their cloth, as the saying goes, and make decisions they can afford.

I am in a similar situation. You don't need to be so panic. Moving to state schools is not end of world - it can save you £36000 per year. You could then pay for private tutors from those top private schools or specialist teachers which are much cheaper than private school fees. Think the positive side, you can enjoy your taxes paid from nownon and use the state schools as a free nursery for your children 😀 and they provide free meals! You don't need to pay for lunch at all!

@BlumminFreezin obviously I've spoken to other parents, it's not an option for most as will not be able to commute to nearest city where most parents work. Parebts speak to each other so there's awareness.
Anyway I'm tired of being trolled and gloated at. I'm bowing out of this thread.
You've won, children from private schools are having a hard time. So give yourself a pat on your back.

Less financially solvent private schools probably would have gone to the wall anyway, even without this policy change.

So much diversion from a 20% tax. What sector do you work in, who would be hit by the same?

@RedRidingGood "@CurlewKate are you @Baital too"

Absolutely not. I posted in error-I am very sorry.

I don't quite understand your posts here.

Universities are facing serious challenges, with budget cuts and department closures affecting staff, students, and the quality of education. If people here respond to this crisis with indifference or even gloating, what is your feeling then?

Education—whether at the school or university level—is not just an individual benefit but a foundation for a thriving society and economy. When one part of the system struggles, the effects ripple outward. Those who dismiss these issues today may find themselves affected in ways they didn’t anticipate.

Why do you think I am 'getting pleasure' from it?

My DD was out of school for nearly a year, mostly because of COVID but also because we didn't meet the stipulated application process and deadlines.

For reasons outside my control. Which meant no guarantees, and accepting the place we were given.

Yes, it was stressful. The school turned out to be absolutely amazing.

But we didn't apply in time for the standard application process, so had to wait and cope with the uncertainty.

Once the LA was dealing with waiting lists, and we didn't get a quick answer, I involved my MP and DD was rapidly given a place, and an integration plan.

You know, not all state schools are dens of iniquity where pupils stab each other on a daily basis...

@RedRidingGood I was asking questions because I know quite a lot about school admissions, and I think that I might be able to help you. I am not gloating-why would I do that?

There is still a lot of inequality in the university sector, but not to the same extent as the school sector.

We have compulsory, state funded primary and secondary education. Private schools are a luxury.

Sadly university is becoming a luxury. My mother was the first of her family to go, and had all her tuition paid and a grant to live on. She earned it through the grades she got in state school.

Thankfully these days more options are opening up for people who can't afford full time university straight from school (sometimes it seems to be a bit of a 'finishing school' rather than extending someone's education). Distance learning, part time, block release, apprenticeships. They are opening up higher education to people who wouldn't be able to afford the traditional model.

@Baital i guess given your own history I would expect a bit more empathy towards another parent dealing with disruption in their child’s education.

@RedRidingGood really sorry you are going through this - hope you ultimately find a good solution, though appreciate how stressful it is in the meantime.

No but getting a good one is a postcode lottery and there is massive inequality in the state sector

There are clearly bits of the Country where a large number of private schools folding could cause problems, eg Bristol & Bath.

BUT in many parts of the country there are few if any private day schools, I cant see for example that it would be much of an issue in Middlesborough or Mid Wales

I’m strongly against this policy and I agree with you, I think what you’re overlooking though is that most small schools are non profit and their plan to be ‘financially solvent’ are to meet the costs of the next term. Lots won’t make it through the business rates hike and more won’t make it through the reduced september intake.
For those parents who can afford it, it’s a one off 15- 20% increase and then a return to normal inflation. I agree. But the point is, what is the rationale behind forcing schools to close and children into state schools? I understand the IFS report says these parents will spend their money on other vatable items, but surely paying for education is better than house price inflation around state schools or newer cars?

Of course I have empathy! It is very stressful when your child isn't getting the education or support they need.

I didn't meet the application deadlines, for reasons outside of my control. The same for @redridinggood

The reality is their child/ren are in school. They will need a place in September, 6 months time. Waiting lists will change a lot in the next 6 months. Some ex-private parents will discover they afford/manage travel to another private school (no-one seems to have responded to my reminders that there were threads on here encouraging private school parents to tell their LA they would need a place, even if they didn't! Which maybe has given MPs and LA staff the impression any claims if needing a place weren't genuine...).

Other parents whose children have a place will move because of a job offer, relationship breakdown, or other unexpected situation.

A lot changes in 6 months.

Right now there is nothing to do but wait.

I suppose when you are used to privilege then having to wait, just as us plebs do, seems unfair.

@Baital - so you specifically moved back to the UK to get what you need out of the state education system for your own DC and now you expect private schools parents to cough up for you and your own DC? I hope you are a massive tax net contributor with your lofty tone towards a parent who clearly is distressed about their situation! You got lucky, in the end and you fought for your DCs rights. If state education becomes overwhelmed and the economy goes down further, don’t assume the SEND budget for your DC won’t be affected negatively. Who is to say your state school will continue to be able to afford to support your own DC. There are no guarantees.

@Baital language like ‘plebs’ really undermines your profession of empathy.

@RedRidingGood - sorry to hear about your situation. I hope your DC is allocated a Reception place after the initial allocation in April. Presumably you are now simply a late applicant and have submitted your state school preferences?

All @RedRidingGood posts shows is that private school parents should probably all be applying for state school places as backup and hanging onto them for as long as possible. Had she done that, she would not have been in this situation.
To get back to your point @baital about supposedly phoney state school applications. Everyone is entitled to a state school place, this VAT probably means more people will sit on both offers for longer, especially pending this VAT court case. I bet nobody considered that one either.

Quite. I'm starting to suspect their support of this policy maybe isn't purely motivated by their desire for more funds to be diverted to state schools 🤔.

No united learning took it over as a rescue bid. It would have closed then otherwise. They put in £16million to pay off debts and try to increase the roll but they’ve failed to do so. They’ve failed to increase the rollover a period of 6 years not just since the VAT announcement. The VAT in this case isn’t the last straw on the camel’s back as it would most likely have closed anyway.

once parents realise a school is in that level of financial difficulty it’s difficult to stop them fleeing for somewhere else and advising other parents not to apply.

@RedRidingGood - if your older child is in Year 3 and above, infant class sizes do not apply so you can try and appeal for any local schools and if you are successful, then your Reception child will likely go to the top of the waiting list too. You need to start employing these kind of tactics. Have you looked into how to do this? Unfortunately the UK is a place where everyone is working the system one way or another and you need to figure out how to work it out too.

Someone should submit an FOI request asking for the details of the Bill (if there was one) before it was enacted into legislation....and then we should all write to our MPs requesting them to obtain the actual data which would back what was expected from the Bill

In any event, United Learning has tons of state schools in their group too so what exactly are the implications there if 16 million have been lost?

I lived here for many years as a well paid single person, having been in the workforce since the age of 18. I was not quite a higher tax payer, but nearly, no health conditions so probably a net contributor.

I have worked full time since I got back. DD is now nearing school leaving age and has had the support she needs to become a productive adult. The UK was spared the cost of her primary education. She will probably be a net contributor.

Another reason for moving back was to support my elderly parents, which reduces the burden on the state.

Yes, I have fought for DDs rights. But I haven't expected the extra rights @RedRidingGood has complained about not getting.

Her children are in school, and on a waiting list for a place in 6 months time. She didn't (nor did I) apply for a place in the usual application round. So neither of us could expect special treatment. If her children do not have a place when school starts in September she has every right to expect/demand that is put right.

Well, exactly. The protest 'apply for a state school place even if you won't take it up' in the end just makes things more stressful for the parents who do need it.