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Whitehall “braced for private schools collapse” 2

990 replies

ICouldBeVioletSky · 01/01/2025 20:05

Starting a second thread as the first one is still very busy, albeit it's veered off in a few directions...

Original article

https://www.thetimes.com/article/e6465c9e-d462-48cb-a73e-74480059a1f3?shareToken=05bf599cd4a2376fe3ce83cdce607100

OP posts:
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44
Strikeoutnow · 01/01/2025 22:52

Sounds like they'll need all the help they can get if your level of writing and punctuation is anything to go by.

Do you have anything of value to add @Kittiwakeup?

Kittiwakeup · 01/01/2025 22:53

Strikeoutnow · 01/01/2025 22:52

Sounds like they'll need all the help they can get if your level of writing and punctuation is anything to go by.

Do you have anything of value to add @Kittiwakeup?

Quite a bit more than you by the sounds of things.

LongDarkTeatime · 01/01/2025 22:54

Strikeoutnow · 01/01/2025 21:48

My wife and I are both doctors and can't afford the increase. Guess we're just not ambitious enough.

Perhaps you need to take in some ironing?

More likely is doctors will simply have to move and take jobs filling vacancies in areas with better state schools (if they have room for more kids), which are likely to be more affluent areas. This’ll make filling posts in already underserved less affluent areas even more challenging.
I’m sure if waiting lists get longer you will feel it’s worth the rapid imposition of tax on educatIon.
Good job apes got 2 years grace to get ready for VAT, they’re CEOs must be much more fragile than kids.

winterrabbit · 01/01/2025 22:54

Jaimenotjamie · 01/01/2025 22:05

Brilliant news. I’m sorry a few kids will have disruption but the collapse of the private school system will benefit the 93% of children who don’t attend. Bravo!

That's complete rubbish. It won't benefit them in the slightest as classes sizes will be bigger and there will be less resources for more kids. Such a stupid jealous view. I honestly want to punch Bridget whatever her name is if she tells us one more time that state education desperately needs more funding. Noone disagrees with that. What we disagree with is the concept that the parents who are already paying 25k a year to send their kids to a private school and who have undoubtedly already paid a shit load in tax, should pay for it. As usual, the middle classes are Labour's cash cow. And to rush it in mid school year is verging in criminal. Why not rush in the anti-vaping law which is serious risk to public health? Apparently that needs 12 months to allow retail to prepare but this doesn't? Pure greed and robbery. This country is rapidly going down the toilet.

Jaimenotjamie · 01/01/2025 22:56

i am just pointing out that it’s not the silver bullet you think.

but it’s a start toward banishing inequality. And everything has a start @Ifyouarehappyandyouknowitshout

tortoise18 · 01/01/2025 22:56

"Good job apes got 2 years grace to get ready for VAT, they’re CEOs must be much more fragile than kids."

most baffling argument yet

Strikeoutnow · 01/01/2025 22:57

I am dyslexic and double screening hence why in an earlier post I did say I see the points around SEN dc in private school. Thankfully my dyslexia hasn’t held me back in my career.

Kittiwakeup · 01/01/2025 22:57

Jaimenotjamie · 01/01/2025 22:56

i am just pointing out that it’s not the silver bullet you think.

but it’s a start toward banishing inequality. And everything has a start @Ifyouarehappyandyouknowitshout

Can you explain how it is a start towards banishing inequality? Everyone will be worse off. Or does it just make you feel a bit better that some children will be displaced from their private schools? If so, it's pathetic.

winterrabbit · 01/01/2025 22:57

twistyizzy · 01/01/2025 22:39

Fees have risen less than private rents over last 10 years

Not sure that's true. When DS2 started a private school in 2021 fees were £6,500 per term. They are now £8,500 per term before the VAT rise and will be 10k after. A huge expense.

Kittiwakeup · 01/01/2025 22:59

Strikeoutnow · 01/01/2025 22:57

I am dyslexic and double screening hence why in an earlier post I did say I see the points around SEN dc in private school. Thankfully my dyslexia hasn’t held me back in my career.

Dyslexia is no excuse for nastiness.

Jaimenotjamie · 01/01/2025 22:59

Such a stupid jealous view

@winterrabbit frankly I find a lot of the language being used around this issue quite repulsive.

‘jealous’

‘spiteful’

There are many many many high earners (inc me) who disagree with private education on a fundamental societal basis. And even if not able to afford it, opposing it doesn’t make you jealous. It’s just gross, superior language.

Undrugged · 01/01/2025 23:02

Very striking simultaneity in new mumsnet threads covering this subject, and new press stories appearing over the last 24 hours on the same: No doubt it’s just regular parents switching back on after the Christmas break 😏

Applepoop · 01/01/2025 23:03

Screamingabdabz · 01/01/2025 21:10

The opposite is also true when private school parents and alumni close ranks and recruit in their own image.

This is seriously on the change and has been for a long time. Perhaps there are a minority of places who are recruiting in that way, but it's severely frowned upon in most places - a lack of diversity is the kiss of death.

In fact, plenty of places now actively don't want private school people. Lots of work experience schemes are only open to state candidates.

Kittiwakeup · 01/01/2025 23:04

My DC went the grammar school route but I still think it is a bloody stupid policy. I am furious with Labour. They are totally fucking everything up. I don't like dogwhistle politics but the icing on the cake is that this isn't even going to make any sustantial contribution to the public purse, just a shed load of disruption, worried parents and unhappy kids. The only upside is that some idiots will think it is some great step forward in equality. It reminds me of the (possibly same) idiots who thought we were 'taking our country back' with Brexit.

Applepoop · 01/01/2025 23:04

Undrugged · 01/01/2025 23:02

Very striking simultaneity in new mumsnet threads covering this subject, and new press stories appearing over the last 24 hours on the same: No doubt it’s just regular parents switching back on after the Christmas break 😏

People start threads about what they see in the news don't they? And I would say the timing is completely appropriate - January is the charging date for VAT.

Ifyouarehappyandyouknowitshout · 01/01/2025 23:06

@Jaimenotjamie Not a silver bullet means not the solution to a problem. I am not using the state provision but paying for it through taxes. Instead i am paying extra by deciding to go private meaning more provision for those in the state system. Those that can’t afford to stay in the private system are just going to now use tax payers money. Those of use who can will just carry on doing what we are doing.

Undrugged · 01/01/2025 23:07

ICouldBeVioletSky · 01/01/2025 21:28

This had really been changing - CV blind interviews, a conscious effort to market to graduate recruits at a wide range of universities including non-Russell Group at the City Law firm where I work.

I wonder if this will last now that private school parents are being targeted as a cash cow to milk, to pay for the education of others including millionaires who use state schools?

Why would it not? Don’t understand the logic here.

Jaimenotjamie · 01/01/2025 23:07

@Ifyouarehappyandyouknowitshout i know what it means! That’s why I answered the way I did. No, it’s not going to solve everything but I believe it’s a move in the right direction

Jaimenotjamie · 01/01/2025 23:08

@Undrugged because she’s threatening to close ranks and exclude the plebs once more. We had our chance and blew it.

Strikeoutnow · 01/01/2025 23:08

Quite a bit more than you by the sounds of things.

The only two posts I’ve seen you add to this thread @Kittiwakeup are the below, one that has now been deleted (not by me). As I said they are nothing of any value to the debate.

”Hope you remember that when you need your quadruple bypass or whatever. Not everything is measured in £££. Absolutely no need.”

Sounds like they'll need all the help they can get if your level of writing and punctuation is anything to go by.”

If you don't agree with my posts then please ignore me, in your own words there is no need.

Strikeoutnow · 01/01/2025 23:09

Dyslexia is no excuse for nastiness.

Whats your excuse then?

Applepoop · 01/01/2025 23:14

Jaimenotjamie · 01/01/2025 22:59

Such a stupid jealous view

@winterrabbit frankly I find a lot of the language being used around this issue quite repulsive.

‘jealous’

‘spiteful’

There are many many many high earners (inc me) who disagree with private education on a fundamental societal basis. And even if not able to afford it, opposing it doesn’t make you jealous. It’s just gross, superior language.

It's fair enough to disagree with private education on a fundamental societal basis. But the thing is, that's idealism. We have to face reality - these schools exist, there are kids in them. In most cases, nothing fantastical is going on inside. The class sizes are a bit more controlled and there's more extracurricular stuff and the power to expel is present and used, which helps a bit with discipline and behaviour. If you have a good state school that your kids use, then great. But plenty do not. I found myself in an unexpected situation with an SEN child, for example. That's how mine ended up in private (thankfully now adult so no VAT for me to pay).

I do therefore think that the word spiteful is appropriate. Kids are in these schools. This policy is fucking some families/kids very hard - the reason for the word spiteful is that the policy isn't going to make a blind bit of difference to state schools. It's hurting private schools as a fuck you to the rich. Which is indeed spiteful.

Jealousy? I'd say there's a lot of jealousy in education. I, for one, am extremely jealous of people living in lovely properties which give them access to lovely state schools. Because I resent having to have paid for my kids' education when some people in different areas got the same quality education for absolutely nothing.

Ifyouarehappyandyouknowitshout · 01/01/2025 23:15

@Jaimenotjamie but it’s not going in the right direction at all. More people using less resource with those of us rich enough to still pay just carrying on.

Luddite26 · 01/01/2025 23:15

In 2009 my DD2 started secondary school and I had to pay 20% more for her uniform than others in the queue for pe kits.
I started up a campaign called Taxed for being tall. Her genes made her at age 10 wear clothes for 15 year olds where VAT is charged. Nobody gave a shit MP's, Gordon Brown other parents etc
It was picked up by an accountancy magazine who agreed with me that we were literally getting taxed for being tall. I'm sure many reading this don't give a shit even though that meant I paid up to £40 more than others of the same age.

My thoughts on the VAT on school fees is get it paid. The state school system is a mess.

Strikeoutnow · 01/01/2025 23:16

frankly I find a lot of the language being used around this issue quite repulsive.
‘jealous’
‘spiteful’

I agree, these threads are very divisive. I have lots of friends and family who are in favour of the policy, (some who use private themselves) some who are in different & then a few like me who kind of agree but see some of the issues.