Whitehall “braced for private schools collapse” 2

[ICouldBeVioletSky]

Starting a second thread as the first one is still very busy, albeit it's veered off in a few directions...

Original article

https://www.thetimes.com/article/e6465c9e-d462-48cb-a73e-74480059a1f3?shareToken=05bf599cd4a2376fe3ce83cdce607100

Thank you for your kind reply.
Yes we’re looking at all those options at the same time as gently trying to navigate a move for A’levels. We missed the deadline to apply for bursaries as working too **ing hard. We’re rural so there aren’t many school options. So it’s going to be a move and somewhere much much bigger and overwhelming.

The long term economics is so messed up:
Gambling - must be total snowflakes as no suggestion of VAT
Vapes - CEOs must be delicate as need 2 yrs to adjust to VAT
Kids inc SEND - VAT on education immediately despite High Schools & teachers already being overwhelmed, kids needing time to plan an adjust, SEND kids being disproportionately affected potential leading to costing state far more in the long term
There is no sense to this. I’ve been a Labour supporter and activist but this is just an emotional and mean policy

so she will go there, probably depriving someone less well off of a place.

I thought grammar places disproportionately went to dc from affluent backgrounds already?

@LongDarkTeatime good luck & defo talk to the school.

I’ve stopped working apart from a few hours a week to keep my earnings below the tax threshold when I was previously a high earner. My DH has an appointment next week to get his affairs in order and move as much as he can to lessen his tax burden. We happily paid our fair share of tax - not any more!!

I have to say I’m confused re the above but may be misunderstanding. You have gone from earning 50k plus a year to 12k and prior to this your DH was paying more tax than necessary as he wasn’t being tax efficient eg maximising pension contributions?

@LongDarkTeatime I know how you feel. I apologise if this seems cold comfort, but I have a high functioning ASD DS who did two A Levels by himself and sat exams as an independent candidate. It was further maths and MFL so no lab work was required and it was fairly straightforward. I know people on the spectrum can be vastly different, but if you think your DC can study independently this option may take some stress off. Good luck!

Thank you @Ubertomusic It’s good to hear your DS managed this way. More online schools seem to be appearing to meet this need.
DC is ASD and ADHD, plus they crave social inclusion (after all the bullying really wants to be accepted). So the structured (to manage ADHD) school (friendship) with smaller classes (avoiding sensory overload where possible) has been perfect. Plus one of their subjects is very practical. There are many at current school in similar situations, as in most private schools (although the VAT drum beaters don’t seem to take this on board).
God, we’ve waited SO long for a Labour government and can’t believe this was what they prioritised, even after hearing of all the real damage it’ll do. It’ll feel very weird not to vote Labour again.

Actually it is pertinent. Everything has risen over last 10 years. Fees pay for teacher salaries, pensions and utilities, all of which have risen exponentially over last 10 years. 75% of fees go towards salaries.
Just to point and say "fees have risen" is reductive and meaningless. Everything has risen over last 10 years.

Here is a thought experiment:

• the government decides that paying to own your own home is a luxury and a privilege that needs taxing in order to fund social housing
• they tell everyone that mortgage holders are getting a tax break becausethey currently don't pay a 20% tax on top of their mortgage
• they whip up populist slogans and soundbites to turn social housing tenants against mortgage holders. They tell mortgage holders that there is a free option ie state housing whilst ignoring the shortage in social housing
• they then bring in a 20% tax for all mortgage holders because it is "fair" and mortgage owners have the broadest shoulders.

Agree -can’t believe anyone can have such muddled thinking as to imagine this makes any sense?

I voted Labour even knowing of this policy in their manifesto - we need adults in the room and I do feel that they are trying to improve the country versus just feathering their own pockets.

This feels like a sop to the lefter parts of the party, and clearly is popular besides. The actual benefit or otherwise is incidental.

Our local state schools are not great and we're looking at moving to another area. We've applied for September for one of the better states, and if we don't get it then we'll probably end up moving.

@LongDarkTeatime - I am so sorry for your situation. This is exactly the type of situation that makes this VAT policy entirely unpalatable to me.

What some people do not seem to understand is that DCs with SEND whose needs are not met in a daily environment, can develop severe stress and actual physical health issues due to constant high cortisol levels. Their whole immune system becomes impaired. Adrenal fatigue etc etc
This Labour Government is not just mentally harming some DCs with their policy. It can result in actual physical harm too for many - depression, anxiety etc etc
It is unforgivable as regards any Year 10-Year 13s and any DCs with SEND. I hope the court case is successful and that they have to pay out damages for some children. It direct and deliberate Government intervention to potentially harm thousands of children.

Labour's plan only works, i.e. it raises money for the state sector, if the private sector doesn't collapse. The figures for the money they assume the tax will raise are calculated assuming minimal drop-off in numbers at private schools.
If the sector "collapses" then a 20% tax on no fees means no money is raised. In that case, the state sector is left educating 600,000 more kids with the same state budget as before (and a national spend on education that's 8 billion lower). Genius, eh? Wishing for the annihilation of private schools, but attacking them in such a way that the attack only works if it doesn't work.

"The actual benefit or otherwise is incidental" as is the harm? We know our kids are incidental to BP and Labour, she has said as much.
How does bringing in a policy that will raise little yet harm many "grown up"? They are putting party before country which FYI they said they wouldn't do.

I agree with you, but suspect it was a matter of compromise to bring all of the party on board. That's politics.

The problem they have now that even if they come round to the idea that it wouldn't be a net benefit, they still need to continue or be attacked for being weak. Also politics.

I hope the legal challenges succeed as that will force the position, but I wouldn't expect them to change direction otherwise.

"trying to improve the country versus just feathering their own pockets."

Open your eyes.

Keir Starmer accepted the use of an 18 million penthouse (accommodation worth over £20,000) "so that his sons GCSEs would not be disrupted". He also accepted donations worth more than £32,000 for clothing and spectacles.

Bridget Philipson: £14000 for a birthday party. Free tickets to a Taylor swift concert.

Rachel Reeves: £7500 for clothing

Feathering their own nests is exactly what they've been doing.

All children with ASD and or ADHD are at risk of autistic burnout by being forced by a Government into different schools. That is a well documented fact and the school fees of these children should never have been subject to VAT. It is not in the taxpayer’s interest whatsoever to do this. I really hope the court case looks at clear evidence as to the potential immense harm for autistic DCs.
https://www.autism.org.uk/advice-and-guidance/professional-practice/autistic-burnout

Many autistic DCs in private schools do not have EHCPs or do not have EHCPs naming that setting only (as yet). The system cannot cope with churning these EHCPs out promptly either.

Eh, I'll accept that. So their level of corruption is currently less than the previous lot, still an improvement.

The Labour Party just like the Tories are more concerned with their own party infighting and historic legacy hang ups like anti private school sentiment, than they are concerned with making our country a better place for all.
And that is exactly why both the Labour Party and the Tories in their current forms will soon be finished. The vacuum they leave behind is very worrying indeed though.

As someone else above said, it would have been quite easy to put the country’s best interests first with an instant attempt to rejoin the Single Market or Customs Union and target low inflation and genuine growth. What they ended up doing is the exact opposite. The NI rises in particular are virtually negligent and the rest of their policies are divisive nonsense primarily (WFA, farmers, private school taxes). They are in a tangled self obsessed solipsistic mess just like the Tories and we the country and taxpayer are paying for it.
However, when it comes to vulnerable children with SEND then enough is enough. And let’s hope the courts step in. If they don’t, then what is the point of the human rights act? If it won’t protect our own.

I think we are at risk of derailing the thread (although I'm not the thread police), but people forget how many were in favour of Brexit as we all live in our online echo chambers. Had they put rejoining the EU at the top of their manifesto they simply wouldn't have got in.

To go back to the topic, I hope you're right that the courts will force them into a position where they can reverse their policy on private schools while still saving face.

That's a bit like saying "he's a better doctor than Harold Shipman".
Almost certainly true, but a low bar to clear.

The claim that the apartment was used so the son’s GCSEs would not be disrupted is abhorrent enough given the contempt that is now being shown to independently educated GCSE and A level students who will need to move mid-course.

It’s also an out and out lie as Starmer continued to use it for three weeks after the GCSEs finished.

You’d have to be utterly delusional to think that Keir and chums are any more morally scrupulous than the Tories.

God, the endless whining about tax breaks!

Ah, got it. Labour are just a bit corrupt so that’s fine. 🤦‍♀️

100% they wouldn’t have got in. But they didn’t put lots of the ‘policies’ they are currently rolling out in their manifesto. So we’ve all been had anyway.
Why not at least do something that will stimulate some economic growth?!

Give them time, they’ve only been in government for 6m - am sure they can match and exceed the corruption levels of the Tories by the end of their term. Pretty sure the scale of corruption so far puts them ahead of the Tories at the same stage though, or at least neck n neck, ironic really given they fought their campaign on an anti corruption, higher moral values soapbox…

This feels like a sop to the lefter parts of the party, and clearly is popular besides. The actual benefit or otherwise is incidental.

I agree with this & think it was an easy win. I voted labour but not because this was in their manifesto.