Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Protection built in.

Meet the Other Phone.
Protection built in.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
Education

Join the discussion on our Education forum.

Original poster

Whitehall “braced for private schools collapse” 2

990 replies

ICouldBeVioletSky · 01/01/2025 20:05

Starting a second thread as the first one is still very busy, albeit it's veered off in a few directions...

Original article

https://www.thetimes.com/article/e6465c9e-d462-48cb-a73e-74480059a1f3?shareToken=05bf599cd4a2376fe3ce83cdce607100

OP posts:
Thread gallery
44
Aydel · 01/01/2025 22:30

Meanwhile the government is having to pay this 20% increase for all the military, MOD and FCDO families (plus others) for their continuity of education.

Strikeoutnow · 01/01/2025 22:32

I haven’t ruled out PE for my dc at secondary level & of course no one likes to pay more for things but some of the points I’ve seen on a number of these threads are as I said nonsense.

NiftyTraybake · 01/01/2025 22:32

Strikeoutnow · 01/01/2025 22:29

However, most using private schooling other than for SEN kids aren't sending their kids to the ultra-elite places where networking is the thing, and I suspect are just trying to get some education without kids who don't want to learn and just disrupt the class.

So are you arguing that VAT is ok for those attending ultra-elite places?

No, as I've said before those with the funds to send their kids to such places couldn't care less about 20% here or there and will have made other arrangements to minimise the cost. Perhaps they've taken some ironing in.

Jaimenotjamie · 01/01/2025 22:32

My children aren’t a social experiment. Where they are they get the best rounded experience and it will set them up.

i don’t understand @Ifyouarehappyandyouknowitshout. Are you saying that everyone who can’t afford private school’s kids aren’t worth the best rounded experience that will set them up? If you can afford it, crack on. If you can’t, tough shit

Strikeoutnow · 01/01/2025 22:33

No, as I've said before those with the funds to send their kids to such places couldn't care less about 20% here or there and will have made other arrangements to minimise the cost. Perhaps they've taken some ironing in.

So you agree with @Araminta1003 those parents are just more ambitious, presumably they have lots of side hustles 😆

Kittiwakeup · 01/01/2025 22:34

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Jaimenotjamie · 01/01/2025 22:35

Oh god, just stop with these threads.

It’s happening.

We collectively voted for this as the majority agree with it.

Your money doesn’t buy everything anymore.

Deal with it

NiftyTraybake · 01/01/2025 22:35

Strikeoutnow · 01/01/2025 22:33

No, as I've said before those with the funds to send their kids to such places couldn't care less about 20% here or there and will have made other arrangements to minimise the cost. Perhaps they've taken some ironing in.

So you agree with @Araminta1003 those parents are just more ambitious, presumably they have lots of side hustles 😆

Yeah, that's exactly what I said 🙄

The very wealthy will be unaffected by this.

twistyizzy · 01/01/2025 22:37

Jaimenotjamie · 01/01/2025 22:35

Oh god, just stop with these threads.

It’s happening.

We collectively voted for this as the majority agree with it.

Your money doesn’t buy everything anymore.

Deal with it

Stop commenting on them

The government has to get through 3 legal challenges yet

tortoise18 · 01/01/2025 22:37

mynamechangemyrules · 01/01/2025 22:27

I keep coming on these threads to say:
I am leaving private education as a teacher because the private sector in the UK is bewilderingly shit! They're selling absolute fluff to people, via marketing teams who get paid most of their budget and don't have a scooby about education.

I assumed it would be like the rest of the world where you get the highest quality teachers and resources for your money, but it just isn't true here. The schools I have worked with and in here in the UK are trading on their picturesque buildings and grounds/ colonial or traditional vibes plus maybe a couple of niche facilities or subjects. I'd love to see an eyes wide open assessment of them. Send in Ofsted not the feeble ISI and watch them all coming out as RI. That'll shut them down faster than any VAT costs.

Absolutely this. And if people think that these businesses couldn't cut 20% of the fees that they've raised above inflation for years to pay for the Steinways or the brochures or the dividends then I have a bridge I'd also like to sell them, with or without VAT.

There's a bit of Stockholm syndrome with many parents towards their childrens' schools, having sunk so much cash into them already, that stops them questioning why exactly they were so expensive in the first place (and doctors with more than one child and without existing wealth were priced out of them long ago, by the way).

twistyizzy · 01/01/2025 22:39

mynamechangemyrules · 01/01/2025 22:27

I keep coming on these threads to say:
I am leaving private education as a teacher because the private sector in the UK is bewilderingly shit! They're selling absolute fluff to people, via marketing teams who get paid most of their budget and don't have a scooby about education.

I assumed it would be like the rest of the world where you get the highest quality teachers and resources for your money, but it just isn't true here. The schools I have worked with and in here in the UK are trading on their picturesque buildings and grounds/ colonial or traditional vibes plus maybe a couple of niche facilities or subjects. I'd love to see an eyes wide open assessment of them. Send in Ofsted not the feeble ISI and watch them all coming out as RI. That'll shut them down faster than any VAT costs.

Yet you were happy to take their money? While you were a teacher did you tell the parents who paid your wage how you felt?

Jaimenotjamie · 01/01/2025 22:39

And reading that article? Please. 6%! 6% drop in pupils LONG TERM with a 2% short term drop.

put your energies in fighting real injustices in the world

Strikeoutnow · 01/01/2025 22:39

However, it’s a given that the majority of private school parents are ambitious because they have decided consciously to invest significant amounts in their DC

Having worked in private schools I wouldn’t agree that’s a given, for one plenty of grandparents pay. And many parents who pay have no interest in their dc.

twistyizzy · 01/01/2025 22:39

tortoise18 · 01/01/2025 22:37

Absolutely this. And if people think that these businesses couldn't cut 20% of the fees that they've raised above inflation for years to pay for the Steinways or the brochures or the dividends then I have a bridge I'd also like to sell them, with or without VAT.

There's a bit of Stockholm syndrome with many parents towards their childrens' schools, having sunk so much cash into them already, that stops them questioning why exactly they were so expensive in the first place (and doctors with more than one child and without existing wealth were priced out of them long ago, by the way).

Show quote history

Fees have risen less than private rents over last 10 years

NordicwithTeen · 01/01/2025 22:40

Has the govt actually done a full breakdown of the effects? One of our local schools has implemented 2 rounds of redundancies so that they can swallow the cost. If they are all doing this to varying extents that could be thousands out of work on benefits, for example?

Strikeoutnow · 01/01/2025 22:41

“Back in 1997, the average annual fee for a ‘day’ student in a private secondary school was £4,182. If average fees had risen in line with inflation they would now stand at just under £8,000 per year. In reality, they are now more than double that. Between 2009 and 2019, fees increased by 24% in real terms.”

“What has been the effect on the proportion of British children being educated in the private sector? Essentially none. In 2002, 5.98% of pupils in British schools were educated in the independent sector. By 2022, the proportion had actually increased very slightly to 6.05%.‘

There won’t be huge numbers of dc leaving because of VAT and pupil numbers have fallen due to low birth rates so numbers overall will be reducing.

Jaimenotjamie · 01/01/2025 22:42

Fees have risen less than private rents over last 10 years

@twistyizzy again with tangential, nonsensical ‘arguments’. If your children are at private school ask them to help you craft a well thought through response perhaps. If they can’t then….perhaps send them state

Ifyouarehappyandyouknowitshout · 01/01/2025 22:43

@Jaimenotjamie I am saying that standards should be raised to match those at private school. Smaller classes, more tailored education, more activities, better send care. That isn’t going to happen if private schools have to close because the kids will end up in the state system. And as I say, schools like our children’s (think one of the original public schools) won’t struggle and we will just stick together. That’s just human nature.

Jaimenotjamie · 01/01/2025 22:43

One of our local schools has implemented 2 rounds of redundancies so that they can swallow the cost. If they are all doing this to varying extents that could be thousands out of work on benefits, for example?

@NordicwithTeen firstly this would be nowhere near the thousands. Secondly there are a lot of state schools that need teachers. Win all round. Unless they don’t actually have a teaching qualification which many private school teachers don’t have…..

Strikeoutnow · 01/01/2025 22:45

Some private schools are struggling hence why some have had to opt out of the teachers pension scheme & state school teachers have seen a fair big increase in salaries the last 4 yrs or so which puts competition on salaries. Plus utilities, food, everything has gone up.

Strikeoutnow · 01/01/2025 22:46

Fees have risen less than private rents over last 10 years

I have a cat

Jaimenotjamie · 01/01/2025 22:46

@Ifyouarehappyandyouknowitshout so why do you care if a tiny fraction increase of parents can’t afford private school? I don’t get it. Most could never afford your school. And still can’t. Won’t change

Strikeoutnow · 01/01/2025 22:47

The very wealthy will be unaffected by this.

Is this a shock? I mean the very wealthy have been pulling away from the rest of us for years, very little affects them.

Ifyouarehappyandyouknowitshout · 01/01/2025 22:49

@Jaimenotjamie i am just pointing out that it’s not the silver bullet you think.

tortoise18 · 01/01/2025 22:50

twistyizzy · 01/01/2025 22:39

Fees have risen less than private rents over last 10 years

Show quote history

What a completely pointless comparison.