The councils need to find spaces for all children!!

[HooverIsAlwaysBroken]

https://bmmagazine.co.uk/news/surrey-runs-out-of-state-school-places-for-private-pupils-as-vat-raid-bites/?amp

I am relieved to see that the Surrey is also looking at options to expand class sizes and use transportation to take children to other areas. They really need to get their act together quickly.

all children has a right to state education.

Yes. In similar circumstances as described by the poster people were piling on to, where children had to be removed from private education but the council was unable to find alternate places they have paid for them to continue at their school. I used to work as a solicitor advising various councils and no I won't disclose the ones I am aware of through my work for confidentiality reasons.

Correspondence? Regarding a non-SEN pupil being returned to a fee paying school?
Its not true there simply is no mechanism that would allow this in the absence of SEN or something like a LAC.
Even if state schools are 'full' they are simply informed they must go over PAN.

This is not true. See my post above.

Heaven forbid anyone from 'Indy' (hate the term) has to go to a state school.

It is often done for children in year 11 or year 13. And is more common than people realise.

Honestly every child is not entitled to a state school place. Every child is entitled to an education which definitely does not have to involve attending a school. We saw this in covid. And we see it everyday with excluded children. If classes become overfull or just because times change, state education could legally be provided online or in town halls or evening classes. Might go down like a cup of sick, but so long as a few hoops are jumped through by the providers it's perfectly legal.

That has got to be vanishingly rare?
The LA in question is properly failing at its place planning if it has to resort to such measures. I can only imagine this happening in KS1 due to the ICS rule. In other years I can't really imagine a situation in which this would be the outcome.
Not that I'm saying you're lying, I just find it hard to imagine a situation in which this would be justified.

Actually, that’s just pathetic.

'your post' is not a link to proper proof. And i note you also have carefully avoided confirming whether there is SEN in these cases. Anyone can claim they work for the council. It can't happen without exceptional circumstance eg SEN

@twistyizzy I suspect I am in the same Facebook group and have seen posts about LA’s approaching Private Schools for places as they are oversubscribed.

The shit show that is state education and a policy that is probably going to hit state schools not help them! No DC at private schools and work with state schools, so no skin in the game on increased fees.

Also if she has enough money in savings to live off whilst home educating as stated it doesn't seem to be a case of not affording the VAT but a rather short-sighted protest at the principle of it.

I just cannot imagine a situation in which this would happen! As pp said, schools would just be instructed to go over PAN!

@TheSillyGoose are you serious? You took DC out of a private school and now you're home educating them? Are you a teacher? It seems an extreme reaction.

This will be our option if we decide it’s too expensive too. They’re not being educated under Bridget Phillipson, that’s for sure.

LA's dont need to approach private schools. It is literally within their power to force a state school to exceed PAN and accept additional students.
And yet you are claiming that there are students with NO SEN or other needs (eg exceptional location eg remote island residents) that they'd rather pay private fees for, than force into a local state school. Nope not happening

This thread is pretty weird...
Question though as I try to understand mindsets, will the money from VAT be ring fenced to improve state school quality and quantity of places?

I haven't carefully avoided there was no SEN. There was no SEN. I specifically referred to confirming the same circumstances as the prior poster said. So for the avoidance of doubt - no SEN - no source as I am not prepared to breach my duty of confidentiality for some woman on MN. The fact remains it is more prevalent than people realise even prior to the introduction of VAT.

@Saturdayssandwichsociety they are happy to pay extortionate fees to private special schools for SEN children rather than have enough state special school places for them, so nothing would surprise me

Agreed.

No it tended to be y11 and y12/13 students where disruption of exam years was an issue. Often the school would give discounted rates to the councils in question but there were still fees paid by the council. This was pre VAT on fees.

@Monvelo no! Supposedly going to pay for 6000 extra teachers (can't actually recruit new teachers anyway) and free breakfast club, and more nursery places etc etc. But chances are policy will actually cost money

@Spirallingdownwards - if this is true , the discounted fee is being paid for one academic year. I assume in exceptional circumstances. Not really that dramatic.

It’s ringfenced for education BUT the assumption that there will be more money depends on other assumptions around the number of children who remain in the private sector. So worst case would be entire private sector collapses, state has to educate everyone and it costs them loads more money and they raise 0 from VAT. Best case is everyone pays the VAT and they don’t have to educate any extra kids. The reality will be somewhere in the middle but where remains to be seen. There is also the collateral effect- ie that rather than keeping existing employment patterns and spending the money they used to spend on education on other discretionary things in the uk, parents who switch their dc into the state sector do one of two other things- 1. They cut their paid employment as they feel they don’t need the money anymore which reduces the income tax take or 2. They spend the money on things like overseas holidays that don’t benefit the UK economy

These things are difficult to predict at population level. Anecdotally I hear a lot of chat from current year 7-11 parents about switching dc into the grammars for 6th form and retiring earlier but it’s hard to say if people will actually do it when the time comes.