The councils need to find spaces for all children!!

[HooverIsAlwaysBroken]

https://bmmagazine.co.uk/news/surrey-runs-out-of-state-school-places-for-private-pupils-as-vat-raid-bites/?amp

I am relieved to see that the Surrey is also looking at options to expand class sizes and use transportation to take children to other areas. They really need to get their act together quickly.

all children has a right to state education.

You said 'Every single child I know in state who got strings of 8s and 9s last year at GCSE had extensive tutoring (as did a lot who didn't get stellar grades)". Are you doing this with your child too or are they the exception?

As a parent I'm all for any unfair advantage I find reasonable and can afford for my DC 😁 and not a socialist in a way you mention it.
But at the same time I see the UK struggling with one bad government after another and one of the lowest productivity of work in developed countries, so maybe it could benefit from actually able kids getting high quality degrees, because the ones who were able to achieve the same grades only thanks to their family wealth brought the country where it is now.

In our academically average indie roughly a third of the class have SEN.

But don't let the facts get in the way of the agenda.

This.

And failing to see the irony of it... 🤦‍♀️

Of course they do, now every child who is behind academically is also labelled as SEN, so why not.
I bet they all will get extra time on the exams as well.
That's a good example of buying better grades for less able kids.

GPs and dentists are actually quite high earners.

So you suggest that someone who has e.g. dyspraxia a) is less able and b) should not be given extra time to make it level playing field for them to achieve along with non-disabled people?

This is disability hate speech and I should probably report your post but I'd rather everyone see how low people can stoop these days.

“I’ll keep it polite even if you can’t” 🤨 If you can point out where I’ve been impolite I will start taking you seriously. Whilst attack may be the best for of defence, it’s not working well for you here.

Every child sitting an exam, state or indy, has the right to request reasonable adjustments. They have to provide proof so contrary to your + BPs opinion, no school can bluff this process (I work for an exam board so know this process inside out). 20-25% of kids in Indy sector have SEN (skewed by the specialist indy SEN schools) so yes these will be entitled to suitable adjustments as per Ofqual guidance.
The shocker is that more state schools don't apply ie they are disadvantaging their pupils NOT that indy schools are somehow fiddling the system.

Absolutely I am.

DD has had extensive tuition in her specialism for 8 years outside school but I don’t really consider that “tutoring”, but she now has a weekly tutor in one subject and I’m considering in 3 others depending on how mocks go.

Hence my research and enquiries now. I wasn’t planning to tutor in academics at all until I got all the messages from friends. I’d assumed their children had all got great grades just based on school and then found that lots had had tutors for the whole of Y10 and Y11. I was honestly shocked as these are all top set kids in outstanding state secondaries.

Loads of DDs friends also have tutors, so considering she’s also SEN, I’m not leaving it to chance and will do everything I can to maximise her grades.

She already has an unconditional place for next year in her specialism so no issues there.

@twistyizzy thanks, just this morning I've been reading about indy kids using SEN adjustments more often but couldn't have imagined to what extent.

Anyway I feel this kind of discussions are going in rounds. People who could barely afford a certain expensive product and didn't bother with risk assessment are now trying to stir everyone else and such poor financial planning coupled with hysteria can trigger the reaction opposite to the intended one.

It all depends on the needs of the child. At secondary a child with an EHCP who is high achieving in maths/physics but with significant ASD/ADHD needs will be funnelled to lower sets where the TAs are available. A highly academically able child with social needs is difficult to place as top sets don't have TAs and the school will argue that an LSA is detrimental. So best place them in the lowest set.

I absolutely support private placement in non specialist schools for DC with an EHCP whose needs cannot be met in mainstream because they are unusual in presentation. It is a travesty that parents of so called twice exceptional DC have to go to tribunal or pay for additional support even if placement is granted.

But this is not the norm. Most SEN DC in private don't have an EHCP and this is because they don't meet the criteria not because parents choose not to increase state burden. It's precisely because their DC don't meet criteria for support that they do the sums and opt for private. Most parents can't afford private when state is not good enough. There will be some parents who opted for private who could barely afford it for whom VAT will be a deal breaker. There will be some parents without SEN DC who are politically opposed to VAT. There are choices.

If private schools want to support SEN DC they could waive the VAT or provide bursaries, especially if they relied on back up from this cohort to survive. But they seem to be doing the exact opposite with even Eton cutting bursaries.

Why would they do otherwise. They are a private business not a pubic service.

But don't believe the hype that if you remove your DC there will be a huge burden on the state sector because DC that don't need an EHCP in mainstream private will need one in mainstream state. I'd be surprised if their needs were not judged able to be met from normal SEN budget.

But at least you will have thousands to pay for tutors/private reports/solicitors/tribunal instead of school fees.

Shock horror DS2 is not behind academically (ahead actually) but gets 25% extra time on exams plus PIP due to need and DSA due to EHCP whilst school age based on ASD/ADHD.

The aim is equity not equality.

He gets a leg up that others don't need so he can perform at his best. So he contributes to society and is not just a 'burden'.

@PocketSand thanks for the explanation about placement of ASD children into lower sets, I've read smth similar here before.
That's why I don't want any diagnoses in primary school while DC is doing fine - every state secondary has it's own set of rules and in a child with mild ASD official diagnosis may place them into a disadvantaged position during setting. But it makes sence to get it diagnosed closer to exams.
And some private schools demand disclosure of any official diagnoses and then refuse places to children with ASD/ADHD without even meeting them and assessing their needs.

You really don't know????

"Your lack of empathy and generosity of spirit is astounding."

"I think your prejudices are shining through."

How do you think over tutored children cope once they get to university when they no longer have top up tutoring? I can answer that - badly.

And some private schools demand disclosure of any official diagnoses and then refuse places to children with ASD/ADHD without even meeting them and assessing their needs.

As do some state schools.

“How do you think over tutored children cope once they get to university when they no longer have top up tutoring? I can answer that - badly.”

That is a vast generalisation. Many people end up tutoring due to teacher shortages/temp cover or student illness/gaps from previous years. A lot of current students still have gaps from eg year 8/9 sciences and Covid /teachers focussing on exam years during the whole Covid period. In addition, not all teachers are equally strong nor are all sets equally motivated/free from disruption, or some just need to practise their French aural because so many bilingual kids take the French GCSE. And some do it simply because they are incredibly advanced and passionate about eg Maths or Physics and want to engage way beyond their years. Or prepare for international Olympiads or Cambridge STEP papers etc.

Don’t be so ridiculous.

At A level you can drop all the subjects you don’t like or are no good at, but a great set of grades will help with applications.

If you are off to study Maths or Physics at degree, it doesn’t matter too much if you needed a tutor to get you the 8 in English Lit or Geography.

Lots of state schools also can’t recruit at the moment. I know soooo many kids having tutoring across all 3 sciences because they’ve had no teachers for years. One school I know is teaching 90 kids at a time for Science as they’ve only got 2 actual teachers - all lecture hall style. Why wouldn’t you tutor if your kid wants to do STEM or if they just want a chance at the grades they’re actually capable of?

My DD has been working with a university department for the last year and scoring high marks on the degree modules. Their SEN support is far superior to anything at school and they’re way more flexible.

100% this.
You have to be very careful if your child is DME.
It’s very hard to get the right support and sets unless school are open to listening and understanding.

Covid massively messed things up for those in current GCSE years - lockdown affected both school transition and almost impossible to get any diagnosis done in those years, plus teachers only knew the child as a name on Teams. So no support from anyone except parents for multiple years. By the time you’ve worked things out and got a diagnosis in place you’ve run out of time to get an EHCP in place before GCSEs and your child is often miserable and thinks they’re stupid.

Some private schools are incredibly supportive - especially if they really want your child. Others are the last place to send them. The exact same with state.

It sounds like you are living in a parallel universe. My own experience is that DC get 10 nines at GCSE and 4 A stars at A Level. Without tutoring. But crack on.

I will thanks.

What is wrong with tutoring anyway?

If you're in a class of 30 children then it can only be helpful to have an hour a week where you can have 1:1 attention and focus on all the bits you may not have understood fully, or where you can tackle things more in depth.

Some children have parents who can help them at home, some children have parents who are teachers, some children are at private schools with tiny classes.

Most subjects I won't need to as DD's comprehensive already offer before school tutor sessions in 2 subjects, after school in another 3, every Saturday in core subjects and most of the holidays from now till June have compulsory revision days. All targeted and in small groups.

In our case, 1:1 tutoring helps with confidence and an hour with a tutor is far more effective than 10 hours of self-study, especially when they have executive function issues.

Quite a few of the children I know who got all 8/9 at GCSE have kept the tutors for A level. Much cheaper than private school.

Calling out the attributes you have demonstrated on this thread is not being impolite. I haven’t called you any names or been rude. In fact, I’m not the only one to point out your lack of understanding of how this is affecting today’s children. Being defensive about this, combined with your “We’re alright Jack attitude with your children having got 9’s and A*” just reinforces my thoughts. And that’s not being impolite; ask one of your clever children what that means but it isn’t what you think it does.

Are they going to keep their tutors at university? You can get top grades at A level without private school or tutoring. Lots do.

No, it was your comprehension that was awry and/or you jumped to wrong conclusions about my posts. Look up ad hominem. It might give you a bit of a steer on the difference between arguing a point and making it personal.

I don't have to ask my children thank you. Intelligence tends to be somewhat hereditary.