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The councils need to find spaces for all children!!

661 replies

HooverIsAlwaysBroken · 13/12/2024 16:09

https://bmmagazine.co.uk/news/surrey-runs-out-of-state-school-places-for-private-pupils-as-vat-raid-bites/?amp

I am relieved to see that the Surrey is also looking at options to expand class sizes and use transportation to take children to other areas. They really need to get their act together quickly.

all children has a right to state education.

Surrey runs out of state school places for private pupils as VAT raid bites

Surrey County Council has admitted it does not have enough state school places to accommodate children transferring from private schools, following the government’s introduction of a 20 per cent VAT levy on independent education.

https://bmmagazine.co.uk/news/surrey-runs-out-of-state-school-places-for-private-pupils-as-vat-raid-bites?amp=

OP posts:
Thread gallery
15
meditrina · 13/12/2024 17:14

The council will need to use the Fair Access Protocol to force the schools best able to cope to go over numbers

I’m surprised Surrey is the first to be in this situation - I was expecting it to be one of the London boroughs or Edinburgh (which was signalling issues a little while ago)

The headline figures of demographic decline and spare school places are often misleading. Most of the vacancies are in yrs 4/5 and below - this crunch has come in years 7 and above (where the bulge is still very much present).

twistyizzy · 13/12/2024 17:15

MrsSchrute · 13/12/2024 17:14

How did it?
VAT on school fees meant that the poster could no longer afford those fees (like the vast majority of the population).
VAT on school fees do not mean that she could no longer work for the NHS.

She gave up work in order to home school her kids as a direct result of VAT.

TheYearOfSmallThings · 13/12/2024 17:15

HooverIsAlwaysBroken · 13/12/2024 16:24

Well, they will just now have to squeeze the children in - or pay for taxi to neighbouring counties. The state has an obligation to provide free education for everyone, so let them do it!!

They will do it, and it will be absolutely fine. Although whether all the children projected to move to state schools actually do so will be interesting to see.

MrsSchrute · 13/12/2024 17:16

twistyizzy · 13/12/2024 17:15

She gave up work in order to home school her kids as a direct result of VAT.

Which was her choice! Every child is entitled to a state school place, she chose not to use it, and to homeschool instead.
That is absolutely her choice, but it is a choice all the same.

twistyizzy · 13/12/2024 17:16

TheYearOfSmallThings · 13/12/2024 17:15

They will do it, and it will be absolutely fine. Although whether all the children projected to move to state schools actually do so will be interesting to see.

The number who have already left this term has already exceeded projected numbers for the whole academic year. More to follow. Add into that the number now not starting

redwinechocolateandsnacks · 13/12/2024 17:20

@twistyizzy you keep making big statements but provide no evidence.

twistyizzy · 13/12/2024 17:23

redwinechocolateandsnacks · 13/12/2024 17:20

@twistyizzy you keep making big statements but provide no evidence.

I can't provide evidence that has got names, addresses etc on!
I have access to info that isn't in public domain. I don't care whether you believe me or not, I don't have to prove anything to you but safe to say I've spent the last 18 months on this.

MrsSchrute · 13/12/2024 17:23

twistyizzy · 13/12/2024 17:16

The number who have already left this term has already exceeded projected numbers for the whole academic year. More to follow. Add into that the number now not starting

However many children enter the state sector is not really an issue, they will all be catered for.

TheYearOfSmallThings · 13/12/2024 17:24

I've seen a lot of different figures bandied around, ranging from numbers in private schools have dropped by 0.1% to 85% of private school parents are planning to move their children to state schools to the world ending tomorrow (the Telegraph naturally).

So great, whatever number actually move will be given spaces in state schools, as they should. The world will not end, it will settle in fine, and all the squawking will die down.

twistyizzy · 13/12/2024 17:25

MrsSchrute · 13/12/2024 17:23

However many children enter the state sector is not really an issue, they will all be catered for.

Except as you can see from the OP they aren't being.
Plus each child leaving Indy costs the state 7k per year to educate. Much more if they are SEN. Indy sector saves state over £4 billion per year.

twistyizzy · 13/12/2024 17:26

TheYearOfSmallThings · 13/12/2024 17:24

I've seen a lot of different figures bandied around, ranging from numbers in private schools have dropped by 0.1% to 85% of private school parents are planning to move their children to state schools to the world ending tomorrow (the Telegraph naturally).

So great, whatever number actually move will be given spaces in state schools, as they should. The world will not end, it will settle in fine, and all the squawking will die down.

The world won't end but it will cost the taxpayer more

OnlyFoolsnMothers · 13/12/2024 17:26

twistyizzy · 13/12/2024 17:07

A policy of raising tax that will cost as much to implement as it raises. If only Labour had spent the years in opposition doing due diligence etc. Then they may now not be facing 3 separate English legal challenges + 1 Scottish one.

Over how many years is that calculated- once a tax is implemented it’s implemented.
Thats because we have 14years of selfishness imbedded in the public- we need more taxes but not from me, we need more houses but not near me- yawn!

MrsSchrute · 13/12/2024 17:26

twistyizzy · 13/12/2024 17:25

Except as you can see from the OP they aren't being.
Plus each child leaving Indy costs the state 7k per year to educate. Much more if they are SEN. Indy sector saves state over £4 billion per year.

Nowhere in the article does it say that children are left without a place.

TheYearOfSmallThings · 13/12/2024 17:26

twistyizzy · 13/12/2024 17:25

Except as you can see from the OP they aren't being.
Plus each child leaving Indy costs the state 7k per year to educate. Much more if they are SEN. Indy sector saves state over £4 billion per year.

I can't see any such thing. It is December and classes for next September have not been decided.

Seriously, it will be fine. Calm yourself.

twistyizzy · 13/12/2024 17:29

TheYearOfSmallThings · 13/12/2024 17:26

I can't see any such thing. It is December and classes for next September have not been decided.

Seriously, it will be fine. Calm yourself.

Just because you refuse to accept it doesn't mean it isn't true.

Spirallingdownwards · 13/12/2024 17:29

The practice of councils paying for children to go to private schools is not a new thing and is more prevalent than people realise.

twistyizzy · 13/12/2024 17:29

TheYearOfSmallThings · 13/12/2024 17:26

I can't see any such thing. It is December and classes for next September have not been decided.

Seriously, it will be fine. Calm yourself.

1 woman telling another to calm herself is not a good look

twistyizzy · 13/12/2024 17:30

Spirallingdownwards · 13/12/2024 17:29

The practice of councils paying for children to go to private schools is not a new thing and is more prevalent than people realise.

Edited

You are correct. The irony however is pretty strong

TheYearOfSmallThings · 13/12/2024 17:30

twistyizzy · 13/12/2024 17:26

The world won't end but it will cost the taxpayer more

Is that your real concern here? Grin

I do not think so.

I am the taxpayer, and I don't begrudge any child a space to which they are fully entitled. But I am not prepared to enter into your agitation about having to either pay VAT on school fees or use the state system.

MrsSchrute · 13/12/2024 17:30

Spirallingdownwards · 13/12/2024 17:29

The practice of councils paying for children to go to private schools is not a new thing and is more prevalent than people realise.

Edited

Children without a private school named on an EHCP?

TheYearOfSmallThings · 13/12/2024 17:33

twistyizzy · 13/12/2024 17:29

1 woman telling another to calm herself is not a good look

I have no idea whether it is a woman or a man. Either way it was good advice.

Petrasings · 13/12/2024 17:34

Entirely predictable and going to get so much worse.
So many people assume private school families are billionaires and can easily find thousands and thousands of extra pounds, but most are just GPs, dentists and normal bog standard professionals.

Petrasings · 13/12/2024 17:36

This is an own goal and will cost the country millions and millions - even into the longer term that could have been used for something important like propping up the NHS or social care.

Saturdayssandwichsociety · 13/12/2024 17:38

twistyizzy · 13/12/2024 16:43

The best one I've heard is that 1 council are now paying the fees to send several kids back to the Indy schools they were pulled out of due to VAT, because there simply aren't enough state places in their area (secondary schools).
If only someone had forwarned Labour that this could be the case......oh hang on!

Id like the source of this info please. Only way this could happen is if the children in question had EHCP and were attending a special school

TitusMoan · 13/12/2024 17:39

twistyizzy · 13/12/2024 17:09

You don't get it do you?
So Labour have lost the income tax from a consultant + NHS lost a highly trained professional. But hey that's all fine using Labour economics

Why didn’t you cut down on your other expenses? I doubt you’ll be a better teacher than the wide variety of teachers at your child’s private school, teachers who were very likely to have been trained by the state in the state sector.

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