The councils need to find spaces for all children!!

[HooverIsAlwaysBroken]

https://bmmagazine.co.uk/news/surrey-runs-out-of-state-school-places-for-private-pupils-as-vat-raid-bites/?amp

I am relieved to see that the Surrey is also looking at options to expand class sizes and use transportation to take children to other areas. They really need to get their act together quickly.

all children has a right to state education.

You go ahead @LittleBearPad championing a political party that values tobacco companies above children. See where it gets you. They certainly do not have any higher moral ground.

Nobody knows for sure how many kids will be taken out of private schools or won’t start.
What is clear is that they have deliberately trapped some families with kids in GCSE years or those with SEND and it’s unforgivable, nobody affected will ever forget that. It is plain nasty.

You may not have been talking about the graph, but I included it a second time to point out the real numbers.

You said that education spending had grown overall due to immigration. That is quite simply wrong. It has grown per student.

What do you mean? tobacco duty went up 12% above RPI for hand rolling and 2% above RPI for cigarettes.

How does a chancellor single out BAT for a tax hike?

Given the bias on these anti VAT threads, i doubt very much that Labour will have lost any voters.

But it always amuses me when posters go on about how these VAT changes harming young people BUT had absolutely nothing to say about student loan threshold freezes, increases in interest rates and repayment periods, failure to rebuild crumbling school buildings - all done under the previous Tory Govt.

On the S&P stuff, look how low the indices were 9 and 13 months ago? & that overall composite index is still positive, at 50.5.

GDP growth since the GE is neutral, not great but not the disaster being painted.

But lets talk down the economy and then blame Labour.

Labour were the ones to bring in tuition fees and end the maintenance grant.
They are taking 2 years to increase the duty on vapes yet rush through VAT on education within 2 months? These are choices, ideological choices based on class grudges. See also pensioners + farmers.

Reeves did the work of talking down the economy all on her own. Hence consumer/business confidence + spending is down and we are heading towards a recession.

You keep on the "whataboutery" with the Tories. Labour are in government now and are making choices which limit growth etc. You will never get increased spending on public services unless the private sector is growing because where do you think the money comes from?

But lets talk down the economy and then blame Labour

Yes those S&P reports are a pain for Labour

Those three months contraction are due to the budget no matter how staunch Labour advocates try to shy away from the figures

I hadn't noticed that despicable contrast.

The new vaping products duty will be introduced on 1st October 2026. Where is the complexity or harm/benefit conflicts in a vaping tax?

Yet VAT on education will be introduced in January 2025. With all the huge complexity about which students will be exempt, the harm to kids moving partway through exam years, the much higher proportion of income the increase represents for families (hence pain).

It's fucking disgraceful. How can you possibly justify that?

Lol Yes 3k vs 9.250k

& you re making more stuff up, the mtce grant was changed to a loan in 2016/17, announced by Osbourne in 2015.

More twisting of the truth to blame Labour for Tory actions, something done v successfully, starting with the 3 day week.

The simple facts are that 14 years of pretty much stagnant growth and failure to invest, are not "whataboutery" its what Labour face and now have to turn around.
Plus Labour have had to fund NI cuts, blood scandal, PO scandal, nurse & teacher pay rises - Hunt didn't set aside anything for these.

Millions of ordinary people use vapes to stop them from smoking tobacco, they'd be screams of "labour tac working people" had they moved too fast & it would mean more black market vapes hitting the UK market.

they have tightened up sales to children, something the Tories never did.

Of course "working people" can't pay tax. Even when it's to encourage them to not damage their own health.

I'm a working person. Fuck off with taxing me instead.

In 1998, it was decided that students should contribute towards the cost of university education. The Labour government passed the Teaching and Higher Education Act 1998 which introduced tuition fees of £1,000 per academic year. In addition, maintenance grants were replaced with repayable student loans from the Student Loans Company.

It'll be interesting to see Labour wake up to the contraction they're causing

Reeves is a bit slow on the uptake as is Starmer. I wonder how they'll manage it as it filters through to public

Reintroduced in 2006, when fees came in of 1000 per year, its now 9x higher.

Removed completely and never re instated in 2015.

No howls of protest when it doesn't affect the wealthy or Tory voter..

Which Tory voters? Or are you doing the Labour thing of accusing anyone who disagrees with you of being a Tory?

If you think student fees damage the economy, then by all means protest.

I don't.

So I'm not protesting against fees, even though my DC will have to pay them. Just like all other students who are benefitting from 3 years post-school education, to build their own future.

I do think this stupid policy is damaging the economy, and has no redeeming features at all. It will make no money, and will harm many. So I will protest against this.

@twistyizzy Labour are going to use that line and the media one, it'll probably ramp up as it gets worse for them

“Given the bias on these anti VAT threads, i doubt very much that Labour will have lost any voters.”

And that is were you are very wrong! There are several posters on here that you have now lost, for good. This is the kind of thing people never forget about, just like Brexit.
Introducing it half way through the school year is incredibly nasty and will have lost thousands and thousands of votes, for good.

“Given the bias on these anti VAT threads, i doubt very much that Labour will have lost any voters.”

Labour have lost their lead already so that's not even close to true

It's the staunch Labour advocates on mn who think it's all fine for them

"Given the bias on these anti VAT threads, i doubt very much that Labour will have lost any voters"

I was a lifelong Labour voter up until this election. They have lost me forever

“What do you mean? tobacco duty went up 12% above RPI for hand rolling and 2% above RPI for cigarettes.“

@louddumpernoise - go look up the share price - and watch the huge climb straight after the Budget. And then return.

After all the dubious virtue signalling from the Labour Party they failed to deliver on market expectations for tobacco. So the share price rose.

This is the problem when the ignoranti career politicians are in power. They do not understand market forces or the economy or how things work nor what is best for the country.

They are harming our country as much as the Tories. Wake up.

In the third consecutive month of contraction, the index fell to 45.8, down from 48.9 in November. It was far below the key 50 mark and the lowest since 2009 if the pandemic is excluded.'

Maybe it's the Reeves school of I don't want to know about figures from the pp. just be so unaware that the damage doesn't register

Far below 50 and lowest since 2009 (bar pandemic) ain't good no matter how Labour spin it

Oh come on... 14 years of stagnating growth, Austerity, unfunded tax cuts, 8m on NHS waiting lists, 3m on long term sick, the military run into the ground, no new NHS dental appointments or treatments... Brexit, 24% of the population now classed as disabled???

Yet Labour are doing similar in just 5 months???

No, i will reserve judgement for a while longer.

All you ve done @EasternStandard is pick ONE index and extrapolated that across the economy.

Like i said, the economy has been flat lining for years, we went into a recession 13months ago, i didn't recall you protesting quite so hard about that then?

I like to fair & as i said earlier, i would like to see Labours workings on VAT, pros and cons, i also think the WFA was wrong & think, on balance, Vapes should have been hit fair harder.

On the economy, Reeves has to find 10s of billions for the underfunding of compensation schemes and tax cuts Hunt did.

I'll criticise Labour where necessary.

Growth was stronger in the first half of the year. Higher than forecast

Now the opposite is the case. Unexpected contraction.

Reeves and co will paper over the cracks for a while, as some posts do on here, I doubt Labour will avoid the incoming public scrutiny as it filters through from economic indicators to every day lives.

Those figures on the private sector will obviously have an impact on tax take and public sector funding

Borrowing is already maxed out thanks to Reeves

There's no way they envisaged they would cause this, given claims about 'fastest growth. So pretty clueless in impact of their own policies. That is bad

Maybe they'll wake up to their damage eventually

Fastest growth anyone cd see her budget would go in the exact opposite complete and utter nonsense

It is quite simple- they brought in the ideological taxes first on the assumption that people will forgive and forget by the next election. However, they did not remember that politics has changed completely due to online activity and social media and that there is now far more scrutiny on every single policy they bring in. They have massively miscalculated with the employer NI - very badly timed and what is more, the doom and gloom chat over the summer blaming the Tories has cost us all millions.

Old fashioned politics of blaming the last lot is just no longer going to work. They should have come in positive and just let the fragile already recovering economy, well recover. They did precisely the opposite.

Yep but they were too hell bent on revenge policies which are now damaging growth, the economy and all our pockets.
They hate scrutiny, enquiry or questioning hence the constant robotic parroting of the same straplines.

How could Reeves not see it?

Looks like Starmer and Labour are still unaware

As for one indicator in pp it's many - PMI, CCI and ONS unexpected decrease in growth

It's all linked obviously. They all go back to the budget