The councils need to find spaces for all children!!

[HooverIsAlwaysBroken]

https://bmmagazine.co.uk/news/surrey-runs-out-of-state-school-places-for-private-pupils-as-vat-raid-bites/?amp

I am relieved to see that the Surrey is also looking at options to expand class sizes and use transportation to take children to other areas. They really need to get their act together quickly.

all children has a right to state education.

These shower of idiots have not one iota of business acumen between them all career politicians with no real experience of business. Absolute disgrace and a dictatorship see Milliband and Rayner this week

Numbers get in the way of the agenda so to hell with the numbers.

Always easy to spend other peoples money isn't it?
If you are happy to pay more tax then you should sign up to HMRC to pay a voluntary increased contribution each month via direct debit. You can even choose which department it goes to. Something tells me that you won't though.

Excellent points.

I completely agree about the anti-independent school “direction of travel” having an impact aside from the pure cost of VAT. I know parents who could afford the VAT but have decided not to send their kids to independent school as previously planned, for this reason.

And there will be a snowball effect as Labour are gleefully anticipating - as some schools have to close or merge, the whole sector starts to look more precarious and less viable or attractive as an option.

triggered much?

How to tell you dont have an answer, use meaningless phrases.

Not triggered at all just sick of people happy to spend my money whilst not contributing extra of their own. Especially when I don't earn more than the median wage.

The other big issue coming down the tracks is going to be tutoring.

I'm tutoring in a few subjects in Y11 due to DD's SEN and to help her achieve her target grades.

But in asking around for tutor recommendations I've been truly shocked at what has come out.

Friends whose children got a full set of 8/9 grades and are at really sought after state schools have admitted that they tutored in ALL subjects weekly for the whole of Y10 and Y11.

Pretty much everyone had tutors for a couple of subjects in Y11, but it wasn't just one or two who have admitted to the full set for 2 years (and are keeping them on for A level subjects). The cost is phenomenal - if you reckon 40 weeks for Y11 at £50/week per subject, that is 2k a go. But then £16k for a year is probably a decent investment if you are targeting very selective 6th forms.... and no VAT (and you can tick the state educated box for university offers).

It does mean that you can no longer rely on scores as an indicator of how well a school does for it's cohort, and also massively disadvantages children in the same school in terms of sets, and in terms of teachers actually knowing what is happening in terms of their class and what they are secure on or not.

DD says even the kids are starting to ask each other if they are tutored if someone gets a particularly high score in mocks or class tests.

Well, when you comically dramatic and unreasonable, what kind of reply would you expect?

But if you want to be serious, let me tell you what I really think about the VAT issue. Just to clear a few things up.

I had no idea about any details re: private schools, I had no interest or desire to sent my DC there. And once this debate started, I could not believe that private schools are exempt from taxes as they are considered a CHARITY. This is a fucking piss take, if you ask me. This is what is wrong with this country. So you are wealthy enough to send your kids to a private school and you also get a tax exemption! Eaton et all - a charity??? Really?

So maybe I'm not the right person to discuss your woes on here. Pay your taxes, or use state schools. End of.

I already do pay all my taxes willingly thanks. I object to an extra 20% tax that will raise nothing but cause damage to many.
Maybe read up on why indy schools are charities.

You would be amazed what counts as a charity in the UK.

The Treasury are going to be writing very big cheques to Eton in the new year thanks to this policy.

SOME Private schools are charities, not all

I genuinely didn’t know you could do this, do you have a link?

If paid before Labour got in, then no VAT can be charged to those parents for schooling in 2025 and onwards.

My understanding is that this is yet to be proven - VAT may be due at the moment of delivery rather (not) due than at the moment of payment, but there may have been recent guidance that I have missed.

“My understanding is that this is yet to be proven - VAT may be due at the moment of delivery rather (not) due than at the moment of payment, but there may have been recent guidance that I have missed.“

Most of the elite private schools have had prepayment schemes in place for years and whilst HMRC may try and challenge some of them, query whether they have the resources to?

In all likelihood, in the elite schools, not only will the tax payer be refunding millions in VAT on capex projects above 250k, in addition, a significant percentage of parents will have prepaid - which the schools with charitable status can invest tax free at current interest rates.

Likely outcome - negligible VAT coming for the tax payer and big exposure in the press.

@localnotail

I don't find it 'comically dramatic'. But again, just like it's easier to spend other people's money, it's also much easier to find harm to other people funny - or at least inconsequential.

You're right about one thing though- you're not the right person to offer an opinion on this tax, since you clearly know nothing about it. Including the inevitable consequences. Consequences to you, which you won't even realise were caused by this muppetry. Oh dear.

Just to clear a few things up: private education wasn't exempt from VAT because the schools were charities. Not all of them are, actually. They were exempt from VAT because they provide education, which is considered a social good. That's why all EU private schools are exempt from VAT, and indeed in most of the world.

Google it

Tutoring is also common in private schools.

Going back to the op

'Surrey is also looking at options to expand class sizes and use transportation to take children to other areas.'

Why did Labour want this outcome? Even bigger class sizes and extra transport costs?

It doesn't even help state education

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/voluntary-payments-donations-to-government

Don't get too excited: only 153 people have made a voluntary payment to the treasury in the last 20 years.

That's less than 10 people a year in the whole UK who paid more tax than they have to. And some of those were bequests.

@twistyizzy is spot on.

Yes, we experienced this too.

Tutoring is endemic a very aspirationsl
politician had tutoring for Ludgrove £150 per hour 5 nights a week

Where were you when the bedroom tax was introduced?

Now we are supposed to cry a river for the posh mums and dads having to pay a bit more for private education.

I always find it both hilarious and depressing that people on the Left genuinely believe that the Left is more moral than the Right.

Makes a mockery of the idea that Labour reducing the possibility for aspirational middle classes to use private schools will result in some kind of up tick in equality.

The result will be the better off selecting schools via house price or entrance exam and then spending on tutors and extra curricular.

Plenty of us doing exactly that already, but it will massively increase imo, and a decent percentage of mothers will decided to go part-time or give up work to both facilitate this and because they no longer need to earn quite as much.

What has the bedroom tax got to do with VAT on schools fees? They are completely unrelated and just "whataboutery"