How smart do you need to be to pass 11+

[Mumofgirls12341]

My 9 year old is in year 5 and preparing for 11+ and I was just wondering how smart does a child actually need to be in order to secure a place? We’re aiming at London super selectives Latymer, HBS and Woodford County Girls School.

DD has always been exceeding/greater depth since reception but I wouldn’t say she is exceptionally bright - does she have a decent shot? I have heard of people saying it’s almost impossible to get into these schools so any advice would be greatly appreciated.

As usual, you clearly still believe only what you think, rather than acknowledging the actual facts

Because there are no selective state primary schools, the closest you can get are selective intake independent junior schools or prep schools.

You're really reaching here if you think schools are doing academic selection on 3 year olds. And these financially precarious, one-issue parents would just tutor for the grammars anyway.

Like from 10 percent to 12 percent?

HBS, QEB, Latymer & Tiffin take only about 650 between them each year. Even 100 more a year who otherwise would have gone private at 11+ would be noticeable. And there are more than 10,000 private secondary students each year in London.

Hbs doesn’t score or rank 2nd round candidates. You have to wait for offers day to find out if you got a place - unless you live in catchment.

@yousf - some of us have our own data you know! From the schools directly. Like St Olave’s was over 1600 applicants this year for stage 2 and just over 1300 3 academic years ago. For 124 places. If those 300 extra kids are all high performing kids who would have otherwise gone to a private school, let me tell you, it makes a huge difference. And translates to the kids in some state schools not getting in. That is a whole lot of displaced kids who have worked hard.

So, if we assume 100 students are distributed among 5 schools, that would be 20 students each. However, I would argue that the actual number is likely lower—probably less than 5 per school.

@yousf - your mistake is to assume that people switching course for year 7 or Sixth Form are “financially precarious”.

Many are not. They simply refuse to pay the VAT - it’s as simple as that. The game changes completely at transition points.

You are making this up, 2nd stage of St Olaves only have less than 400 boys every year.

@Araminta1003 Many are not. They simply refuse to pay the VAT - it’s as simple as that.

I’ve never encountered anyone who cites this as their reason, and that clearly does not include you.

That was a typo meant to say stage 1 or SET.

“the achievement is significant given that we had 1626 applicants for our SET this year. For your information we are taking 454 candidates through to the Stage 2 test.”

Direct quote from my email. And yes I have the exact information for 3 academic years ago too.

@yousf - well I have encountered many at chess championships and competitive orchestras and work colleagues. So yes, I will take what people I know tell me directly at face value! Rather than your own wishful thinking.

This discussion has been amusing but is ultimately pointless. I hope we all agree that some children who would have gone private will choose to move to the state instead. After all, that's kind of the point of Labour's VAT policy. I suspect that the parents of all of those children will attempt to move them to well-above-average schools (I'm not asking anyone to agree with my suspicion). I hope we can agree that some of these parents will attempt to gain places for their children at selective schools. I hope we can agree that some of these children will be able to gain places. But I don't believe that any of us has a leg to stand on in terms of estimating how large any of the somes are, beyond more than zero.

I've come across people like you who engage in wishful thinking, claiming have encountered many who say this and that. I'll take what you said with a grain of salt.

The main issue is that one or two posters, without any proof and contradicting existing evidence, are suggesting that the number is huge and will have a significant impact. They're citing numerous anecdotal pieces of information, which is both unhealthy and misleading.

I have had to email Sixth Forms asking for extra tickets to be released for upcoming open days. I am sure I am not the only one!

I'm afraid that I haven't seen anything convincing from you, either. And you are implicitly arguing that the impact will be de minimus.

So you agree that the claim about a massive impact lacks any concrete evidence except some andedote or limited prospective?

Last year 2023 the number who passed to stage 2 is 460,so net decrease this year.

As much as I agree that claims about minimal impact lack any concrete evidence except some anecdote or limited perspective. I simply do not believe that the data exists to support or refute either claim.

I have a guess, and I could put out a number there but, if I'm being honest, the error bars would be so huge as to make it meaningless.

I’d say it feels like there is a lot more uncertainty this year - mainly due to VAT.

At my youngest’s through private school - almost every child in the year has been tutored to varying degrees for 1 or 2 years to try to get into a selective grammar. Partly this is due to school fee hikes, partly VAT, partly due to worry that as a smaller school it won’t survive with all of the above factors stacked against it.

Several parents, who have always been adamant that their children would stay on for senior school have now made the decision to put non selective local state schools on the caf.

Personally we were playing at the 11+, but had firm plans of independent school applications as back up options if the grammar option didn’t work out. With VAT though that isn’t a sustainable plan anymore and we put far more money and effort into tutoring than we would have done otherwise.

My hopes for a grammar school are far more about finding a good, well behaved and hard working cohort rather than amazing achievement.

Several parents, who have always been adamant that their children would stay on for senior school have now made the decision to put non selective local state schools on the caf.

Yes, this is the standard practice. Most private school parents, even those committed to senior schools, will include some schools in the CAF. This is entirely normal and not something new or sudden this year.

“Last year 2023 the number who passed to stage 2 is 460,so net decrease this year.” What are you talking about? They pass a similar amount to stage 2 every year. What has gone up is the number of kids trying to get to stage 2. By more than 20 per cent cent compared to 3 academic years ago.

The real and sudden shock will come next August once GCSE results are released. The schools have an incredibly short window to make offers for Sixth Form!

Let’s see what happens.

So let me spell it out to you @yousf - parents can apply for Sixth Forms nowish but offers won’t be confirmed until GCSE results are released. What has this Government planned if people apply for lots of Sixth Forms keep back up private offers (willing to lose a notice fee) and then jump ship last minute in August? What exactly are they doing to mitigate this risk? There will be zero time to plan in August if the numbers are significant. It can even have an impact on numbers entering unis 2 after that. What exactly is the plan?

According to the official website of St. Olave's, the 2023 and 2024 application seasons have approximately 1,500 applicants each.

Now you've suddenly jumped off topic to make speculation about sixth forms. Around 25% of students are actually attending sixth form at private schools. It's not unusual for students to switch from state to private schools or vice versa.