How smart do you need to be to pass 11+

[Mumofgirls12341]

My 9 year old is in year 5 and preparing for 11+ and I was just wondering how smart does a child actually need to be in order to secure a place? We’re aiming at London super selectives Latymer, HBS and Woodford County Girls School.

DD has always been exceeding/greater depth since reception but I wouldn’t say she is exceptionally bright - does she have a decent shot? I have heard of people saying it’s almost impossible to get into these schools so any advice would be greatly appreciated.

My dc’s form tutor asked who in their class in y7 had had tuition and they all had!! The norm round here seems to be weekly sessions from y5 + daily homework (including in holidays) and a couple of ‘mock’ tests.

As you said, Latymer is very STEM focussed these days and DC1 being autistic was obsessed with maths and patterns so it was easier for him, but definitely not the norm, you're absolutely right.
I found Latymer a very supportive school.

My DS had minimal tutoring and got into a super selective. He started mid way through year five and it was mainly going through past papers. It wasn’t one to one either and it wasn’t done under exam conditions, it was done via Zoom as it was 2020!

Boohoo - still tutoring though!

Those are the only local Grammars unfortunately.

I just had a quick look through a foundation paper and I feel like she would be able to answer most of the questions in the first half of the paper minus the questions on algebra and coordinations (she hasn’t learnt those yet)

Sorry the above posts should have been quotes. I’m new here if you can’t tell 🤣

I didn’t say it wasn’t tutoring but it was nothing like the previous poster had shared regarding their experience of what needs to be done to get into a super selective.

The reason that the 11+ is abhorrent is because the VAST majority off kids are privately tutored from age 7. Certainly around here. (Tonbridge/Tunbridge Wells) . This is considered an investment as cheaper than private school. It's not just tutoring to gain more knowledge in specific subjects but tutoring to pass this specific exam.

Passing the 11+ is literally a 'project' for many parents here. The cost saving of a grammar against private even with the tutoring costs is considerable.

However here is the daft bit. No not daft, just darn right unjust. The primary schools are not permitted to teach or prepare for the exam. So if you have a 'bright poor kid' with no tutoring, never seen a practice paper. Against a mediocre tutored kid The latter will get the place after 5 years of tutoring.

For a school funded by the state.
Mine went to grammar and yes they were tutored . I see how wrong it is. They should be abolished completely.

It's private education by the back door. Just visit the schools at chucking out time . You will be gridlocked by cars costing in excess of £25k

Yes, many simply trained for that one exam for years and intensively. Often being smart or clever has nothing to do with getting into grammar school. It’s how much money you are prepared to spend to get your kid there.

I wouldn't say it's a true reflection of intelligence- I'm on track to get a good first in my degree and my DB is an airline pilot. Neither of us could do half the questions! You have to have a mind that works a certain way. My DD passed but admittedly her prep school prepares them. Yes it's unfair, but that is how it is round here and I wasn't going to remove her chance out to make a point. She's at grammar and flying.

Grammars have very little in common with private education - they've been underfunded for ages, many have no facilities, not great for sports or art etc.

Intelligence is a very complex concept anyway.

Ye so agree @Ubertomusic

'Grammars have very little in common with private education - they've been underfunded for ages, many have no facilities, not great for sports or art etc.'

This is very true, certainly about the funding. But Latymer at least, in its previous incarnation (I was there in the '90s) was in some ways more akin to a private school than it is now - music, drama, art and other extra-curriculars given very high status; pupils regularly going on to conservatoires and drama schools as well as Oxbridge/RG universities; a liberal ethos and a genuinely well-rounded experience. Less well resourced, yes, but similar ideals about a holistic education.

More recently it's become more narrowly academically/STEM focused, in part because that's what many of the kids who now get in are focused on, and what those families prioritise. When we visited for the tour recently they made a big point of insisting that they wouldn't be hothousing the maths-focused children by entering them for GCSEs early, sending them to summer schools/weekend classes etc - this was clearly something that a subset of parents had been demanding, and which they were taking a stand against.

11+ stresses aside, we've decided that present-day Latymer probably wouldn't suit DD as she seems more inclined towards the creative/Humanities/languages/musical side of things - all of which were afforded equally status there in my day, but less so now.

Looks like we have the same approach :) - I didn't register DD for Latymer even though I very much like the school. Unlike her brother, she's not into STEM at all but does sport/music/dance, some at national level which requires so much time for training, practice and going to competitions that we have hardly any time left for HW. She's not a good fit for grammar and vice versa.
She sat Henrietta as I needed an objective measurement of her academic performance under exam conditions (her school doesn't let us know her CAT scores or anything).

In London the competition is extreme. I would say it’s not hard to pass the test but you need to score something like 95% to actually get a place in some of those London schools.

The tutoring is insane, I know people who have yr 2 dc on waiting lists for certain tutors and lots sign up for extensive tutoring programmes from yr 4. Plus some grammar’s do reasoning which states don’t even teach.

My DS had minimal tutoring and got into a super selective. He started mid way through year five and it was mainly going through past papers. It wasn’t one to one either and it wasn’t done under exam conditions, it was done via Zoom as it was 2020!

I suppose everyone has a different definition of minimal! 😆

The reason that the 11+ is abhorrent is because the VAST majority off kids are privately tutored from age 7. Certainly around here. (Tonbridge/Tunbridge Wells) . This is considered an investment as cheaper than private school. It's not just tutoring to gain more knowledge in specific subjects but tutoring to pass this specific exam

My friend put hers in private prep specifically to pass the 11+ in Kent.

Laugh all you want but he didn’t have much tutoring compared to the previous examples given by a previous poster. He started in Feb 2020, lockdown was six weeks later so everything went online and he took the exam in the September. Also, it wasn’t tutoring as in teaching him one to one on exam content. It was completing past papers and discussing them afterwards as a group via Zoom.

I just wouldn’t call 7 months of regular tuition hardly doing anything 🤷🏻‍♀️

Also, it wasn’t tutoring as in teaching him one to one on exam content. It was completing past papers and discussing them afterwards as a group via Zoom.

Thats quite standard for 11plus tuition, do sample questions and then discuss them.

And when did I say “hardly doing anything”?!!!! The previous poster gave the following examples:

• Tutoring and several hours of top-up work weekly from about Year 4 (waiting list for 11+ tutor from Year 3)
• From Year 5, practice tests under exam conditions in various locations at weekends
• No holidays for a year or so beforehand - spent the school breaks tutoring/studying
• One mother took a six month sabbatical from work to help tutor her child herself

Did my DS do any of those things? No! He also had a lot less tutoring than most of his friends at school (who didn’t get a place at his grammar).

As I said different definitions of minimal…. I’m not sure why you are so angry tbh.

And I’m not sure why you are on this thread. You haven’t added anything constructive.