I’ll be paying my 20 percent

[Froginpot]

I’ll be changing my car to a much more economical one and paying the 20 percent vat on private school fees when it comes to pass.

The reality is in general the trend in the UK has been for lower and lower academic attainment and the UK educational system ( including a respectable segment of the university system ) is now sadly mediocre at best. And this is directly going to have a significant influence on the long term trajectory of post brexit Britain.

Sadly we are so mired in short term politicking and yes the politics of envy and entitlement that we seem not to notice this ominous decline.
A British education 80 years ago and A British education today are two very different concepts.
There have been some progressive improvements primarily around inclusion and pastoral care but the actual quality of academic progress..we have been left behind.

The recent riots were a very stark demonstration of how our educational systems are failing our children especially in world where misinformation and lies travel around the globe in minutes.

The number of children with Autism and other neurodiverse conditions is increasing rapidly (not limited to the UK) and the funding required to properly support these children is going to be astronomical. Let’s not even contemplate the burgeoning mental health crisis in our society and the its implications.

A truly progressive government would be looking to improve the education of all children (our future) anyway they can and would be looking to encourage and incentivise a greater uptake of children in the private sector and grammar school system as well as create more education streams such that children regardless of their abilities will receive an education that adds value to their lives and in so doing adds value to Team GB.

I wonder how it is not hypocritical that they are happy for the private hospital sector to undertake so many NHS operations to reduce waiting lists yet think it is somehow not okay to look at an education sector that is doing better and not look to collaborate similarly?

It is shamefully okay to levy a tax on the education of a sector of British citizens while actively importing academics, doctors, nurses, radiologists, radiographers, engineers etc from abroad?
If these privately educated kids finally enter the workforce, one wonders if they will work in vacuums benefitting only themselves and their loaded parents or might they work in jobs that are also useful to society..teachers, social workers, doctors,dentists, academics, estate agents, actors on corrie and all the other jobs in between?

https://www.scotsman.com/news/opinion/columnists/vat-private-school-fees-damage-nhs-pro-bono-lawyers-work-edinburgh-4818066

Just read this article and I wonder if all the unintended consequences of this policy have even been properly considered?

For those who choose to keep their children in the independent sector, it is naive to assume that all these people have tons of money sitting in their accounts ( some no doubt will but that’s no different to the general population) but as they have their individual reasons for their choice of education, I wonder how many of us will indirectly end up contributing to their 20% ?

According to the optimistic IFS figures, this tax would probably equate to 0.4 extra teachers per school if fully realised so I think I’ll much rather drive an old car and give my kids the education that I choose and the rest of my wider GB family the 20 percent. We will need all that and much more..of that much I am certain .

Not sure exactly how exactly they think the UK can become leaders in AI, and grow our economy that way.

With every new announcement, that's looking more and more like an 'aspiration' rather than than a 'plan'.

Or maybe they know something we don't, and they're dumbing down our population to make better drones for our incoming AI overlords.

Christ, Labour really are striving for equality in education, ensuring that it is equally devoid of aspiration and achievement and for all pupils! Any hint that the proles may be bettering themselves must be stamped out immediately!

And the Labour legacy will be an influx of poorly qualified underachievers into the workforce, and then Farage in government (as PM or more likely on coalition) to try to sort out their mess!

Absolutely stunning.

Yes but its all the fault of indy schools and they must be made to pay!

McKinnell said there was also a “range of other support for science education in schools, including free, optional materials from Oak National Academy in all three sciences”.

Perhaps the aim is to just use Oak Academy for all and do away with schools and teachers. Just have some kind of Stasi to come and door knock to ensure we are all home-schooling by the rules?

The online resources are great for inherently motivated children who do not get distracted by TikTok or SnapChat or YouTube etc. - that will be the minority of kids! Everyone else needs an actual teacher to motivate them, inspire and explain.

Lord, I hope that no Labour policy-makers frequent these boards.

If they do, we’re all but guaranteed an announcement from Bridget that Oak National Academy is to become the mainstay of Labour’s education reforms.

Thank you @OhCrumbsWhereNow , thank you very bloody much!!! 😭

I should obviously seek public office at the earliest opportunity.

I actually think they are looking to stop home education too? IT HAS TO BE ALL THE SAME.

Great minds.

This is what it feels like to me.

One curriculum taught in the cheapest way possible in one type of school that everyone must attend. And if you dare step outside the norm we will fine/tax you as hard as possible.

I've been looking into some options of doing things outside the norm for post 16 and while at the moment it's possible by just ignoring the rules (there are no sanctions), I suspect the loopholes will be sorted and then you just hit 'computer says no' at every turn.

I really feel for the HE community with what I've seen so far for CSA.

Yes I wonder where they are going to find the funds for all the extra EWOs and support staff when they stop home ed. The privates 20% will not cover that.

Oh haven’t you heard?

The indies 20% goes into a magic money pot that then spews out a LITERALLY never ending supply of gold coins, meaning the VAT can be spent on multiple things at once, in fact as many things as you want!

All hail the alchemic genius of dear Bridget!!!

Your arrogance around private schools is astounding. You are concerned with the increase in autism and MH kids? Well guess what? A lot of times those kids go to private either funded through the council or by parents who know their kids can’t get by in state school. We have three privates in our town - class sizes around 15 and 8-10 kids on average are SEN (absolutely nothing wrong with that more rhe implication that private schools don’t have kids that need different support in school).

There is absolutely no envy here. We can easily afford private school and didn’t drink the kool aid that private schools are always better/. I went to both and definitely don’t think that. I still
dont. I did the tours and know kids that go there - their kids aren’t better or have better opportunities.

if you choose to send your kids fair enough, but leave the private schools are better attitude and sympathy for the VAT being added at the door.

If you choose to send your kids I really don’t care if you have to sacrifice or pay more. Thats your choice.

Oh and my kid in senior has said exactly zero kids have joined from private schools this year so the 20% isn’t a problem everywhere.

The VAT won't pay for anything!
Either it will get kicked down the road if they lose the court case OR the data will show a net cost to the state, especially if a majority of the kids going from Indy to state are SEN because they cost exponentially more money to the taxpayer.

@twistyizzy - what happens when parents refuse to pay the VAT? Do the private schools have to chuck them out? What if they have evidence that the council did not offer them a place and they are on a rolling notice period? It is sort of ludicrous that some people are stuck in private schools, waiting for state school places and expected to pay VAT?

Also are people expected to pay VAT on deposits and notice periods? Again seems ludicrous if people are actually trying to leave? It really becomes a penalty by a Government?

Wow so in 1 school zero have moved? Well then, that's obviously conclusive data then

Someone getting a much needed operation is not equivalent to a private education.

Clearly not. Nor did I say it was conclusive data nor did I say it would hold up everywhere. I said ‘isn’t a problem everywhere’. Which it isn’t.

Wow a passive aggressive comment just to make one. Well that’s obviously a good argument then.

Or you are waiting for the council to pay up on your EHCP and they are in breach of the statutory timeframes and the schools are what? Expected to charge VAT? Despite another part of the Government being in breach of statutory deadlines? I can think of several situations where the VAT is quite problematic.

My DC and his friends. All state school/college in a NW town. All STEM subjects. All did 4 A levels. All obtained A stars and A’s in A level examinations.

I can’t agree with your narrative.

You can afford private school no need to demonize the entire educational system in the UK to justify your choice to send your DC to a private school.

The Children's bill does make me really uneasy. I don't like that it can 'require' parents to send their kid to school... when they may not have a choice of which school that is.

Parents could end up with no way to keep their kids out of a potentially dangerous/bullying situation at a particular school - at the whim of a state employee, who just needs to open an investigation. No proof required. No appeal. No time frame.

It doesn't seem right. It isn't a situation an adult would ever be put in, so how can it be OK for kids?

I totally recognise that the most at-risk children are often pulled out of school, with terrible consequences. I'm sure none of us can get the image of little Sara Sharif out of our heads.

But laws made as a knee-herk reaction are often bad laws. And we shouldn't let a horrific case like that stop us from questioning it.

Isn't there a better way - probably using existing laws - to check the safety of kids who are out of school? When I put my DD into private school, I had to tell the council which, so they do have the info. Isn't it more a case of funding it properly, so that case workers actually have the capacity to check on kids which they suspect are at risk?

I can't help thinking that people who are harming their kids will easily avoid these checks, as they already do now. And the only effect will be to reduce legitimate options for genuine home-educating parents, and make things worse for a small (hence easily-dismissed by Labour) but very real cohort of kids.

Really sorry but independent vs state isn’t ‘one thing’. My eldest child was offered a place at grammer but chose to go to the local comp, grades are better there at A level and larger similar at GCSE. Than both the grammer and two nearest indys.
He is predicted AAA in his A levels.
We were looking at outting our younger child into an indy a few years ago due to SEN but that school behaved appallingly and we chose to stick with the local school again, DC now thriving with the right support. Our brush with indy school made me see how truly mercenary these schools can be and put me off for life. We will be able to buy our DC a house each outright with the money we have ‘saved’ avoiding private education. No sorry re VAT here!

Umm, great?

So you don't care about the kids who would have benefited from the funding to support advanced Maths, in a school where that's uncommon?

Or the girl who would have studied physics, but her school doesn't have a physics teacher... and now a different teacher won't be supported by the SPN program to teach it?

Or the kid who won't learn a language, or discover an interest in computers?

You're alright, Jack.

My DD is alright too, in a well-resourced private school with great teachers. But I still feel sad at Labour's wilful destruction of the state education sector.

Righht.

I don't like brocoli. So let's whack a great big surcharge on that, shall we?

Who cares if it costs the NHS loads more to treat the extra scurvy cases..