I’ll be paying my 20 percent

[Froginpot]

I’ll be changing my car to a much more economical one and paying the 20 percent vat on private school fees when it comes to pass.

The reality is in general the trend in the UK has been for lower and lower academic attainment and the UK educational system ( including a respectable segment of the university system ) is now sadly mediocre at best. And this is directly going to have a significant influence on the long term trajectory of post brexit Britain.

Sadly we are so mired in short term politicking and yes the politics of envy and entitlement that we seem not to notice this ominous decline.
A British education 80 years ago and A British education today are two very different concepts.
There have been some progressive improvements primarily around inclusion and pastoral care but the actual quality of academic progress..we have been left behind.

The recent riots were a very stark demonstration of how our educational systems are failing our children especially in world where misinformation and lies travel around the globe in minutes.

The number of children with Autism and other neurodiverse conditions is increasing rapidly (not limited to the UK) and the funding required to properly support these children is going to be astronomical. Let’s not even contemplate the burgeoning mental health crisis in our society and the its implications.

A truly progressive government would be looking to improve the education of all children (our future) anyway they can and would be looking to encourage and incentivise a greater uptake of children in the private sector and grammar school system as well as create more education streams such that children regardless of their abilities will receive an education that adds value to their lives and in so doing adds value to Team GB.

I wonder how it is not hypocritical that they are happy for the private hospital sector to undertake so many NHS operations to reduce waiting lists yet think it is somehow not okay to look at an education sector that is doing better and not look to collaborate similarly?

It is shamefully okay to levy a tax on the education of a sector of British citizens while actively importing academics, doctors, nurses, radiologists, radiographers, engineers etc from abroad?
If these privately educated kids finally enter the workforce, one wonders if they will work in vacuums benefitting only themselves and their loaded parents or might they work in jobs that are also useful to society..teachers, social workers, doctors,dentists, academics, estate agents, actors on corrie and all the other jobs in between?

https://www.scotsman.com/news/opinion/columnists/vat-private-school-fees-damage-nhs-pro-bono-lawyers-work-edinburgh-4818066

Just read this article and I wonder if all the unintended consequences of this policy have even been properly considered?

For those who choose to keep their children in the independent sector, it is naive to assume that all these people have tons of money sitting in their accounts ( some no doubt will but that’s no different to the general population) but as they have their individual reasons for their choice of education, I wonder how many of us will indirectly end up contributing to their 20% ?

According to the optimistic IFS figures, this tax would probably equate to 0.4 extra teachers per school if fully realised so I think I’ll much rather drive an old car and give my kids the education that I choose and the rest of my wider GB family the 20 percent. We will need all that and much more..of that much I am certain .

Could you afford an extra 3K on anything per year? We can't! Everyone has a tipping point past which they can't go. We don't have grandparents to pay fees/borrow from etc.

Why is your data better than mine? Yours is anecdotal and so is mine. Varies by school I am sure. Maybe the parents I know are more old money.

Whereabouts in the country are you? Because that certainly makes a difference

You asserted ‘I know many families where grandparents foot the bill for all their grandchildren's school fees’

How many parents/grandparents do you know? And how does the topic come up? At dinner parties?

Mine is not anecdotal - I’m still involved with the school group concerned and could obtain the actual numbers should I wish. The majority of fees are paid directly by working parents (the school never offered a discount for prepayment incidentally).

Incidentally, from one grade we know, approx 6% of students have left or will leave after winter term end. I don’t know whether this was due to the vat increase, admittedly.

We are SE Home Counties - London and international.

We have had 10% give notice in/leave for DDs year group. 100% to do with VAT

Sorry meant @CanterburyWhales seeing as they know so many parents with assets/wealthy grandparents. I'm presuming it's not Northern England but I'm waiting to be corrected

Soz Twisty.

No probs, probably my crap quoting skills!

You must be confusing me with someone else. I haven't bothered with the many vat on ps threads for some time.

‘I was just thinking we need another vat on ps thread. I don't think we have had one yet this weekend’

OK, sure, sure.

@Froginpot - it is good you are willing to pay the 20 per cent VAT. However, for every person willing to pay it, there will be others unwilling to pay it, out of principle as well. It is all well and good that the Government have their principles, but so do many soon to be ex private school parents.
Take my neighbour who is a consultant doctor like her DH and has 3 DC who were state educated at primary. They were all going to go independent for secondary until at least GCSE level so that she can work full time and they are at school from 7,30-6 every day (yes, the bus collects and drops and the independent is a one stop shop). She is now not entering the Y6 after all and they will start state in Year 7 and the older one will join as he will go to the top of the waiting list and come out of indie and she is going to drop down her hours back to 3 days. She has had it with policies like this, she is burned out from Covid and being put on Covid wards and this is the final straw for her. Multiply this up and down the country and it is a very concerning picture potentially!

Doesn't mean I actually bother engaging with most of them. They all got pretty repetitive quickly. I only clicked on this one because I naively thought it might be someone with a different POV from the usual.

Sure, sure, it’s OK.

I mean one can always ‘browse’ without feeling the need to comment ‘Oh shit, another thread on School fees VAT’ or similar.

But, as I say, no problem - it’s all good.

Completely agree. Unintended consequences of a silly policy.

Your neighbours are not slaves but human beings who have free will and freedom to choose how they wish to live.. I’m sure there will be someone on here that will not understand why a consultant doctor should choose to cut their hours down now that they don’t need to pay school fees and I’m sure there will be some manager somewhere etc who will subsequently offer the doctor money to up their hours for the good of the NHS.

“ They owe it to the NHS” “ Greedy doctors” “ I don’t earn that much” “We paid for their degrees” etc etc except we probably didn’t. The politics of envy and entitlement.. Self defeating.

Sorry Mr Thread Police. I'll try to make sure I do as you expect in future 😆

Meanwhile I shall just pop over to another random thread of which I profess to have no interest, before adding a post to the effect - to make sure that everyone else knows that I have no interest.

Got it, all clear now.

Are we supposed to think you are noble for changing your car to a more economical one? What on earth do you drive now? Presumably you can afford to change your car? Most people can't. I have no idea why you are talking about people from private school doing jobs beneficial to society. Could they not be state school educated and do these jobs? Utter nonsense as usual.

What is certain is that the Labour Government with this policy have alienated 300k plus higher rate tax payers. And we shall see what the consequences of that will be. I reckon most people will make up what they see as an unfair tax somehow. Put one DC in state school for longer, work private instead of NHS, take what they can back out of the system to compensate for the unfair tax. So net net we won’t be better off, just more divided, yet again. I doubt there are more than a handful of people with kids in private schools who are really happy this policy is coming in. So that says it all. Usually when they raise taxes people just pay it after a little grumble. This one is different because they have gone for people’s children so people will adjust their behaviours somehow, that is guaranteed.

Absolutely right.

What do you do when you are not on here? Stand by the motorway throwing pebbles at all the cars that offend you simply by the fact that you can’t afford them? Must be tough being you.
I glide around my wonderful undeserved life in an all electric Bugatti and I’m planning to trade it in for a humble Tesla.
Go on.. I’m sure you’ll approve. I really need your approval to glide around tomorrow.

I didn't say I have NO interest. But you do as you like. It's a free forum or is it? Best check with the thread police

Reigate grammar was founded in the 1600s and was only a voluntary aided school (between 1944 and 1976). No school fees, but effectively a private school in that it was free of state administration and enjoyed significant funding from its endowment and the church, unlike voluntary controlled schools, which were managed and funded by the local education authority.M. It became fully private while Kier Starmer was there in order to avoid being turned into a comprehensive.

Re. his family: Toolmaker sounds like a Victorian job. It makes no sense in a post-industrial world. His father owned his own tool manufacturing business. Starmer was clearly from a middle class home in an affluent area and enjoyed a type of education that is now out of reach for most British children because of the demise of state funded grammar schools, grant maintained schools and the assisted places scheme. Assisted places would probably be the nearest equivalent to the use of private healthcare providers by the NHS. There is a strong argument for saying that, where there are not enough state school places, it would be more efficient for government to give vouchers to parents to spend where they choose, rather than having to cope with the colossal costs associated with fluctuating pupil numbers in the state system.

Even amongst the top 1% it is slightly less than half that use private education. I haven’t seen the stats broken down for further echelons ( top 0.1% say), but in any case that would be a minority amongst private school parents. And that is accounting for total income, including earned, investments and to some degree housing wealth.

You can type your rants against vat. I am free to ridicule your nonsense hand wringing about driving a more economical car. You don't of course have to read or respond to my comments if they irritate you...