I’ll be paying my 20 percent

[Froginpot]

I’ll be changing my car to a much more economical one and paying the 20 percent vat on private school fees when it comes to pass.

The reality is in general the trend in the UK has been for lower and lower academic attainment and the UK educational system ( including a respectable segment of the university system ) is now sadly mediocre at best. And this is directly going to have a significant influence on the long term trajectory of post brexit Britain.

Sadly we are so mired in short term politicking and yes the politics of envy and entitlement that we seem not to notice this ominous decline.
A British education 80 years ago and A British education today are two very different concepts.
There have been some progressive improvements primarily around inclusion and pastoral care but the actual quality of academic progress..we have been left behind.

The recent riots were a very stark demonstration of how our educational systems are failing our children especially in world where misinformation and lies travel around the globe in minutes.

The number of children with Autism and other neurodiverse conditions is increasing rapidly (not limited to the UK) and the funding required to properly support these children is going to be astronomical. Let’s not even contemplate the burgeoning mental health crisis in our society and the its implications.

A truly progressive government would be looking to improve the education of all children (our future) anyway they can and would be looking to encourage and incentivise a greater uptake of children in the private sector and grammar school system as well as create more education streams such that children regardless of their abilities will receive an education that adds value to their lives and in so doing adds value to Team GB.

I wonder how it is not hypocritical that they are happy for the private hospital sector to undertake so many NHS operations to reduce waiting lists yet think it is somehow not okay to look at an education sector that is doing better and not look to collaborate similarly?

It is shamefully okay to levy a tax on the education of a sector of British citizens while actively importing academics, doctors, nurses, radiologists, radiographers, engineers etc from abroad?
If these privately educated kids finally enter the workforce, one wonders if they will work in vacuums benefitting only themselves and their loaded parents or might they work in jobs that are also useful to society..teachers, social workers, doctors,dentists, academics, estate agents, actors on corrie and all the other jobs in between?

https://www.scotsman.com/news/opinion/columnists/vat-private-school-fees-damage-nhs-pro-bono-lawyers-work-edinburgh-4818066

Just read this article and I wonder if all the unintended consequences of this policy have even been properly considered?

For those who choose to keep their children in the independent sector, it is naive to assume that all these people have tons of money sitting in their accounts ( some no doubt will but that’s no different to the general population) but as they have their individual reasons for their choice of education, I wonder how many of us will indirectly end up contributing to their 20% ?

According to the optimistic IFS figures, this tax would probably equate to 0.4 extra teachers per school if fully realised so I think I’ll much rather drive an old car and give my kids the education that I choose and the rest of my wider GB family the 20 percent. We will need all that and much more..of that much I am certain .

“Or do we just write it off as another Rwanda scheme - basically, an entertainment policy for spiteful politicians at our expense?”

@Araminta1003

100% this - though rather than an entertainment policy it is more of a distraction policy from the fact the government are doing eff all meaningfully to improve state education (just as the Tories were doing nothing meaningfully to control immigration). Both populist policies, throwing an ideological bone to the slavering masses of their supporters. And how uncritically the slavering masses lap them up.

The suggestion that this will lead to an additional 6500 state school teachers (and even if it did, that it would make any difference at all to state education) is risible.

But bashing the poshos is all that matters. The ideological race to the bottom must always be the priority for Starmer et al.

Oh, and anecdotal it may be but as per pp the richest people I know send their kids to top state schools, spending their money on tutoring for grammar schools and multi million pound houses in the catchment of Ofsted outstanding academies.

You obviously don't live in London. Very different picture depending where you live in the country. I suggest you take a look at Rightmove and London day school fees. If someone is living in the North East or parts of the South West on a salary of £100k+ that is a very different situation from a household income of that in Greater London. If you have several children (I don't think your referenced study even took that into account) you have a very different picture regarding affordability. At least you are acknowledging that a great deal of people do not have options, which is a refreshing change from many of the posts that are one here.

And yet you repeat constantly that the variation among state schools is huge. Perhaps that reflects the disparity of their views. Starmer is right that that there are examples of true excellence and there are but what Phillipson says can also be true.

What prejudice in this post. I really don't think the problem is with my comprehension. I don't believe for a minute that all independent school parents are wealthy or have wealthy parents.However, there are many people like that I do know. I also know some families on London salaries who would be considered wealthy by a simplistic national gauge and are really struggling to meet mortgage payments, never mind private school fees. They earn well and I would never class them as wealthy, more like struggling.You keep trotting out that London has some of the best schools in the country but seem not to understand the complexity of catchments there. If you want me to apply your logic, you chose to live in the North East so come to London and have all that choice.

Been there, tried it, no thanks.

@CanterburyWhales - if you live in London and are university educated and have a salary of 100k plus, then you can figure out the school system very easily. And if you do not want to play the game and move house or sell and rent, then that is on you! All those people have the means to purchase educational privilege in the state system, if they put in the effort. And if they do not want to pay a second set of stamp duty, then they pay the price educationally or top up with tutoring. Those people should never be the concern of politicians. They are must as educationally privileged as someone sending their DC to a private school in the North East.

Children who have a stable home life, a good diet, a clean and safe home and kind parents with a university education should never be of concern unless they are otherwise vulnerable e.g SEND.

We need to start being honest about what educational privilege actually means. A child with a ex school teacher stay at home parent in a small 3 bed semi and a nice home life is just as educationally privileged typically, as a child sent to a top boarding school with 2 full time diplomatic stressed out working parents. It really is not as simple as talking about top 1 per cent. Education happens at home from before a child is born. And anyone who knows even the smallest amount about education knows this to be the truth.

Not really helping with the "private school parents aren't all twats" narrative are you?
I object to paying the VAT but I will be as I don't have a choice really but it won't make me resort to insulting and belittling other posters who don't agree with me or who point out that I am in a priviledged position

And don't diss my Tesla, its not "humble" its very nice!

This is a key point- the biggest determinant of educational outcomes is parental involvement. That accounts for most of the 'London effect' where kids in London have better outcomes compared to kids in equivalent socioeconomic circumstances elsewhere in England. The school can only add so much, some parents need to do a lot more.

Wow.

Honesty and common sense! Parental responsibility and individuals taking ownership.

Naughty!

Of course some parents need to do a lot more and be more involved. However, the London effect is not that simple to explain. It is a competitive place and people egg each other on. Schools push the parents and vice versa from an early age and so outcomes overall are fantastic. It is very much born out in the university figures now. There has to be a strong partnership between parents and schools as well and if the powers to be want to make a difference, they need to start with making schools safe community hubs for all so that the parent groups feel positively towards schools and there is mutual respect between teachers/management and parents. Dictating from the top via a nanny state is not going to work. School in deprived areas needs to be so much more than just education. Holiday clubs, NHS top up etc, it is really important they start grasping this. Where they have let the foundations of a school disintegrate by lack of maintenance over many years, that is a big barrier in itself. Every child deserves to learn in a safe, warm and pleasant place.

😂 I haven’t got a Bugatti or a Tesla.. both outside my price point but was being facetious because the poster made a silly prejudiced assertion.
Point is free world .. when I start judging people summarily based on what car they drive or to be honest how they look.. then it is me with the problem…
Besides trying to please everyone is a highway to
nowhere.. Private school parents are normal people as are state school parents.. To say otherwise is just being insecure and pandering to prejudices.. Be a decent person and continue trying to be a decent person. Simple

I get it, I amuse myself on these posts at times but posting outrageous stereotypes about State School kids/parents in response to those about Private schools.
Still, don't diss my Tesla!!!😁

It's hard to research these phenomena but many studies suggest parental involvement and expectations are key:

https://closer.ac.uk/news-opinion/news/the-london-effect-new-research-shows-increased-progress/

This difference is more in poorer children anyway, not families who can afford to move for school or pay for extra tuition.

https://closer.ac.uk/news-opinion/news/the-london-effect-new-research-shows-increased-progress/

Oh honey, I lived in London for over a decade, only moved out 2 years ago, and I am very familiar with the affordability. At top 1% it is a choice, and if you are in that category and feel like it isn’t then you need to take a closer look at your financial planning.

the choices might not always be palatable - smaller house, less desirable neighbourhood, fewer holidays, fewer children - but even in London it is possible to live and send your child to ps on £180k a year. I know people who are doing it on less in London and without any extra help.

I also know loads of incredibly wealthy people in London who are educating their children in state schools (for now at least) as their local schools are excellent. I know several families with school age children who still employ a full time nanny to ferry children from their state school to a myriad of after school activities, help with homework, etc. they obvs have a choice and that includes access to state schools that most of us could only dream of.

You have no idea about my personal circumstances and but let's just leave it that affordability is not an issue for us. My views are not coloured by my own circumstances, unlike many on here. Your anecdotes are...well just anecdotes really so I'm not sure what the point is. And please drop the 'Oh Honey' . It may be a silly attempt to be patronising but it just gives me the ick.

Same as your Pimlico anecdote then

@CanterburyWhales clearly I have touched a nerve (ick!). You have been the one claiming anecdotes from your personal network somehow disprove the larger documented statistics around who does and doesn’t send their children to private school?

Canterbury believes that a smaller number of his own datapoints trumps a wider dataset (in support of his narrative, natch).

I did say that what I stated was anecdotal. Keep up please.

I was illustrating where there were loopholes in the methodology. I would have thought that was pretty obvious but obviously not.

Sure, sure.

Lets change tack.

Whats your view on Labours costings for the imposition of VAT ie do you agree with their numbers?

Okay if we are changing tack, what's your view of Kemi now she's come out with her latest anti-ASD stunt? Still a fangirl? Asking for a friend.

Yours is off-topic and I asked first.

By all means start a new thread and I will post.

Edit: You have a friend?